Certifications! Are they still worth pursuing?
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@hobbit666 said in Certifications! Are they still worth pursuing?:
I think if you have no experience then yes a certificate can help.
At least it shows you have basic knowledge of the area.Does it? Or does it show you're capable of taking a test? Some certs, like Red Hat's, generally are process based testing, so you have someone auditing you as you "take" it (from what I recall). The CCNA though I believe is just a paper test that may be multiple choice.
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@coliver Guess it depends on who you get it. Yes the CCNA is just a paper test at the end of the day. But i did it as a instructor led course so had a lot of hands on, so personally think i got a good understanding of Networks / Routing etc.
Luckily my first job saw that "course" as being a good base for an entry IT job.
Further down the line and no .... no one cares i did a CCNA
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@coliver Great point. See hobbit666 theory is only good when life doesn't throw a monkey ranch into the mix. However, as soon as that monkey ranch is thrown, you're first thought will be...OH SHIII I didn't see this on the test. lol!
I'm starting to believe that Certs only serves a self purpose. A sign of personal achievements. Yet! At the same time, I have all kinds of experience, but certs coupled with experience help put extra 0's on your check. Without it, my EXPerience, a company are happy to have you and not pay you your worth. Just like a degree. -
@mrwright4hire said in Certifications! Are they still worth pursuing?:
I'm preparing to go for my CCNA and venture off into security. However, I'm seeing a lot of companies expresing that they recognize that experience is more important than those who just have their certification. It really depends on who you go to and or talk to.
Certs mean very little. Something, but very little. Aptitude is top, skills are second, experience is third. Everything else is nominal.
The true value to certs is the learning for you in doing the process. Companies look for certs only as a means of validating experience. In many cases, they just want you to go through the exercise because if you know the material it's not hard to grab the cert. So they question why you'd not bother if you know the material.
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@mrwright4hire said in Certifications! Are they still worth pursuing?:
@coliver I do agree with you sir, but you still didn't share your thoughts on whether you would or would not still pursue any certifications and why. Could you please elaborate a bit more?
Certs demonstrate experience, and passion. And the path to certification can promote education. No matter how much experience is better than certs, that doesnt mean that certs don't have value.
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@hobbit666 said in Certifications! Are they still worth pursuing?:
@coliver Guess it depends on who you get it. Yes the CCNA is just a paper test at the end of the day. But i did it as a instructor led course so had a lot of hands on, so personally think i got a good understanding of Networks / Routing etc.
Luckily my first job saw that "course" as being a good base for an entry IT job.
Further down the line and no .... no one cares i did a CCNA
CCNA very specifically doesn't show anything. It's a fodder cert. but it's required on the path to other things.
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@mrwright4hire said in Certifications! Are they still worth pursuing?:
@coliver Great point. See hobbit666 theory is only good when life doesn't throw a monkey ranch into the mix.
I want to hang out at a monkey ranch!
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@scottalanmiller said in Certifications! Are they still worth pursuing?:
@mrwright4hire said in Certifications! Are they still worth pursuing?:
@coliver Great point. See hobbit666 theory is only good when life doesn't throw a monkey ranch into the mix.
I want to hang out at a monkey ranch!
My spelling is a monkey wrench. lol!
You got me Scott! LMBO! -
@coliver Totally agree
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@mrwright4hire said in Certifications! Are they still worth pursuing?:
@scottalanmiller said in Certifications! Are they still worth pursuing?:
@mrwright4hire said in Certifications! Are they still worth pursuing?:
@coliver Great point. See hobbit666 theory is only good when life doesn't throw a monkey ranch into the mix.
I want to hang out at a monkey ranch!
My spelling is a monkey wrench. lol!
You got me Scott! LMBO!Man, and I was sure this was either a hot new country resort location and/or something I should be looking for from Hidden Valley.
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@mrwright4hire said in Certifications! Are they still worth pursuing?:
Welcome everyone to my thoughts. I would like to first ask if anyone has and or know of any update tutorials as well as materials to study CCNA. Any help would be appreciative.
I'm preparing to go for my CCNA and venture off into security. However, I'm seeing a lot of companies expresing that they recognize that experience is more important than those who just have their certification. It really depends on who you go to and or talk to.
What are your thoughts?The knowledge is beneficial but the piece of paper is irrelevant. I use certification books as education paths and then have @scottalanmiller and @JaredBusch yell at me until i understand. It's worked well for me. As a side note, Cisco can over-complicate a lot of simple concepts so watch out for that.
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@wirestyle22 said in Certifications! Are they still worth pursuing?:
The knowledge is beneficial but the piece of paper is irrelevant. I use certification books as education paths and then have @scottalanmiller and @JaredBusch yell at me until i understand. It's worked well for me. As a side note, Cisco can over-complicate a lot of simple concepts so watch out for that.
I think Cisco is a bad path for general education. Their material is super Cisco specific and engineered way more to promote the use of their products than they should be. You could say something similar about Windows certs, but operating systems have to be like that in a way that networking does not and Microsoft is certainly better about keeping knowledge and concepts more general. Cisco certs are for Cisco jobs.
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It depends...
Alot of private employers are following DoD Directive 8570.01 for security jobs. The vast majority in my area require a Sec + for entry level or CISSP for higher level.
If you do a job search in the Orlando area for "IT Security" or "Cyber Security" you will see almost all are wanting CISSP.
That being said, they are some terrible CISSPs, but most I know do know their stuff. It's a massively insane test.
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@scottalanmiller said in Certifications! Are they still worth pursuing?:
@wirestyle22 said in Certifications! Are they still worth pursuing?:
The knowledge is beneficial but the piece of paper is irrelevant. I use certification books as education paths and then have @scottalanmiller and @JaredBusch yell at me until i understand. It's worked well for me. As a side note, Cisco can over-complicate a lot of simple concepts so watch out for that.
I think Cisco is a bad path for general education. Their material is super Cisco specific and engineered way more to promote the use of their products than they should be. You could say something similar about Windows certs, but operating systems have to be like that in a way that networking does not and Microsoft is certainly better about keeping knowledge and concepts more general. Cisco certs are for Cisco jobs.
Great business model for Cisco, though. Without CCNA, Cisco would lose a huge market share IMO.
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@irj said in Certifications! Are they still worth pursuing?:
@scottalanmiller said in Certifications! Are they still worth pursuing?:
@wirestyle22 said in Certifications! Are they still worth pursuing?:
The knowledge is beneficial but the piece of paper is irrelevant. I use certification books as education paths and then have @scottalanmiller and @JaredBusch yell at me until i understand. It's worked well for me. As a side note, Cisco can over-complicate a lot of simple concepts so watch out for that.
I think Cisco is a bad path for general education. Their material is super Cisco specific and engineered way more to promote the use of their products than they should be. You could say something similar about Windows certs, but operating systems have to be like that in a way that networking does not and Microsoft is certainly better about keeping knowledge and concepts more general. Cisco certs are for Cisco jobs.
Great business model for Cisco, though. Without CCNA, Cisco would lose a huge market share IMO.
Yes, they all learned that model from Novell. If only Novell had learned it.
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@scottalanmiller said in Certifications! Are they still worth pursuing?:
@irj said in Certifications! Are they still worth pursuing?:
@scottalanmiller said in Certifications! Are they still worth pursuing?:
@wirestyle22 said in Certifications! Are they still worth pursuing?:
The knowledge is beneficial but the piece of paper is irrelevant. I use certification books as education paths and then have @scottalanmiller and @JaredBusch yell at me until i understand. It's worked well for me. As a side note, Cisco can over-complicate a lot of simple concepts so watch out for that.
I think Cisco is a bad path for general education. Their material is super Cisco specific and engineered way more to promote the use of their products than they should be. You could say something similar about Windows certs, but operating systems have to be like that in a way that networking does not and Microsoft is certainly better about keeping knowledge and concepts more general. Cisco certs are for Cisco jobs.
Great business model for Cisco, though. Without CCNA, Cisco would lose a huge market share IMO.
Yes, they all learned that model from Novell. If only Novell had learned it.
It amazes me how much I hear Novell referenced. People are still upset it failed.
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@obsolesce I know technically it's still around, but it failed.
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Yeah many people are still having trouble getting over it... people still bring it up as if their 30 year old Novell certification has any merit today.
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@wirestyle22 said in Certifications! Are they still worth pursuing?:
@scottalanmiller said in Certifications! Are they still worth pursuing?:
@irj said in Certifications! Are they still worth pursuing?:
@scottalanmiller said in Certifications! Are they still worth pursuing?:
@wirestyle22 said in Certifications! Are they still worth pursuing?:
The knowledge is beneficial but the piece of paper is irrelevant. I use certification books as education paths and then have @scottalanmiller and @JaredBusch yell at me until i understand. It's worked well for me. As a side note, Cisco can over-complicate a lot of simple concepts so watch out for that.
I think Cisco is a bad path for general education. Their material is super Cisco specific and engineered way more to promote the use of their products than they should be. You could say something similar about Windows certs, but operating systems have to be like that in a way that networking does not and Microsoft is certainly better about keeping knowledge and concepts more general. Cisco certs are for Cisco jobs.
Great business model for Cisco, though. Without CCNA, Cisco would lose a huge market share IMO.
Yes, they all learned that model from Novell. If only Novell had learned it.
It amazes me how much I hear Novell referenced. People are still upset it failed.
Not many, it was pretty crappy. Stable, but archaic, even at its peak. But they did a lot to give us much of Suse, so that's good.
