Limiting Bandwidth
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@momurda How would you separate the voip traffic from everything else on a single switch without a VLAN? If I could use one switch for each purpose, yeah that would be easy
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@wirestyle22 said in Limiting Bandwidth (Help me name this thread):
How do you solve this issue then when we can't purchase more bandwidth and we can't purchase new hardware?
Well certainly not with limits as that doesn't address the problem.
Limits don't do anything QoS can't do, it just doesn't do it well.
You need to control what people do on the network if there is nothing else to be done. Putting a limit somewhere will, eventually, encourage services to choke, but it can't stop the firewall from getting flooded - which is the actual issue.
There is no magic here, if you need more bandwidth than you have, then you need more bandwidth. Period.
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@wirestyle22 said in Limiting Bandwidth (Help me name this thread):
@momurda How would you separate the voip traffic from everything else on a single switch without a VLAN? If I could use one switch for each purpose, yeah that would be easy
You ask this over and over as if a VLAN can do that? But obviously a VLAN can't be used to separate out voice traffic. So this is a really weird question to ask.
VoIP traffic is by protocol. So you assign your QoS by protocol, as you always would. Why do you mention VLANs as they cannot be part of the equation for anything you are discussing?
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@wirestyle22 said in Limiting Bandwidth (Help me name this thread):
How do you solve this issue then when we can't purchase more bandwidth and we can't purchase new hardware?
exactly - how do you do this on the inbound traffic for VOIP? I totally get the outbound with QoS bit.
But if I'm downloading a 10 TB file, and the source enables me to download at my max download speed - how do you ensure good phone calls while that download is happening?
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@wirestyle22 You never said in any of these posts it was all on a single switch. You indicated something would be plugged into 2 interfaces on the firewall, I took that to mean two switches one for phones, one for other devices.
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@momurda said in Limiting Bandwidth (Help me name this thread):
@wirestyle22 Firewall should be able to limit bandwidth on a port easily. What is the firewall?
It can limit what is passed through, but not what is received.
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@scottalanmiller said in Limiting Bandwidth (Help me name this thread):
@momurda said in Limiting Bandwidth (Help me name this thread):
@wirestyle22 Firewall should be able to limit bandwidth on a port easily. What is the firewall?
It can limit what is passed through, but not what is received.
Right
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@wirestyle22 said in Limiting Bandwidth (Help me name this thread):
@momurda said in Limiting Bandwidth (Help me name this thread):
@wirestyle22 Firewall should be able to limit bandwidth on a port easily. What is the firewall?
Differentiating between devices would require manual configuration of mac addresses? My co-worker doesn't like "doing things manually" whatever that means. He likes to make things easier for himself.
VLANs are always manual. And never easier. So clearly this isn't a true statement. making things manual and hard is exactly what he wants.
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@momurda I'm telling you what my co-worker told me which doesn't make a lot of sense to me. He wants to partition the switch for half the ports to be vlan 1 and half to be vlan 2 and then he wants to create interfaces on the firewall for each.
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@wirestyle22 said in Limiting Bandwidth (Help me name this thread):
@dashrender said in Limiting Bandwidth (Help me name this thread):
@wirestyle22 said in Limiting Bandwidth (Help me name this thread):
We have a client who wants VoIP but is maxing out their download capabilities due to streaming internet video. My co-worker wants to setup VLAN 1 for VoIP and VLAN 2 for everything else. VLAN 1 would be plugged into Port 1 on the Firewall, VLAN 2 would be plugged into Port 2 on the firewall. Then, from the firewall he wants to limit the amount of bandwidth VLAN 1 (everything but voip) can use in order to assure the customer that their phones will be functional.
I'm hoping there is a better way to limit them without needing to use VLAN's. This customer will not purchase any new hardware short of the phones themselves.
Not sure this is possible. The incoming traffic will come from whatever random source as fast as that source can send it. You have no control.
What I don't know is - if you limit connections like youtube to say 1 Mb total allowed, will that keep youtube from flooding your inbound pipe?
My co-worker is saying it can, but I don't believe anything he says which is why I'm asking. Reminds me of QoS which is entirely within the LAN
But we already know he is making stuff up and has no idea about networking. So..... why mention something else he's just spouting off?
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@dashrender said in Limiting Bandwidth (Help me name this thread):
@wirestyle22 said in Limiting Bandwidth (Help me name this thread):
@dashrender said in Limiting Bandwidth (Help me name this thread):
@wirestyle22 said in Limiting Bandwidth (Help me name this thread):
We have a client who wants VoIP but is maxing out their download capabilities due to streaming internet video. My co-worker wants to setup VLAN 1 for VoIP and VLAN 2 for everything else. VLAN 1 would be plugged into Port 1 on the Firewall, VLAN 2 would be plugged into Port 2 on the firewall. Then, from the firewall he wants to limit the amount of bandwidth VLAN 1 (everything but voip) can use in order to assure the customer that their phones will be functional.
I'm hoping there is a better way to limit them without needing to use VLAN's. This customer will not purchase any new hardware short of the phones themselves.
Not sure this is possible. The incoming traffic will come from whatever random source as fast as that source can send it. You have no control.
What I don't know is - if you limit connections like youtube to say 1 Mb total allowed, will that keep youtube from flooding your inbound pipe?
My co-worker is saying it can, but I don't believe anything he says which is why I'm asking. Reminds me of QoS which is entirely within the LAN
If he's saying it can, then that means he knows how to do it, right?
By definition, he'd have to.
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@scottalanmiller Just to clarify it's not me lol
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@dashrender said in Limiting Bandwidth (Help me name this thread):
@wirestyle22 said in Limiting Bandwidth (Help me name this thread):
@dashrender said in Limiting Bandwidth (Help me name this thread):
@wirestyle22 said in Limiting Bandwidth (Help me name this thread):
@dashrender said in Limiting Bandwidth (Help me name this thread):
@wirestyle22 said in Limiting Bandwidth (Help me name this thread):
We have a client who wants VoIP but is maxing out their download capabilities due to streaming internet video. My co-worker wants to setup VLAN 1 for VoIP and VLAN 2 for everything else. VLAN 1 would be plugged into Port 1 on the Firewall, VLAN 2 would be plugged into Port 2 on the firewall. Then, from the firewall he wants to limit the amount of bandwidth VLAN 1 (everything but voip) can use in order to assure the customer that their phones will be functional.
I'm hoping there is a better way to limit them without needing to use VLAN's. This customer will not purchase any new hardware short of the phones themselves.
Not sure this is possible. The incoming traffic will come from whatever random source as fast as that source can send it. You have no control.
What I don't know is - if you limit connections like youtube to say 1 Mb total allowed, will that keep youtube from flooding your inbound pipe?
My co-worker is saying it can, but I don't believe anything he says which is why I'm asking. Reminds me of QoS which is entirely within the LAN
If he's saying it can, then that means he knows how to do it, right?
He asked me what the best way to achieve this would be, but I have no idea what he's talking about. You can manage the 1 KB request to YouTube, but not the resulting download AFAIK
Well, I think you can affect the download, but only once it reaches the firewall. Limit inbound from youtube to say 1 Mbps, but still at the start Youtube could flood you with 10 Mbps and the firewall would have packets stacking up, but I do believe that some form of return traffic to youtube must tell them to slow down/reduce quality (aka fewer packets or smaller ones) so things don't stack up..
but you'd likely have to manage that for every site on the internet.
Exactly, you can break it after it arrives, but only afterwards.
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@scottalanmiller said in Limiting Bandwidth (Help me name this thread):
@dashrender said in Limiting Bandwidth (Help me name this thread):
@wirestyle22 said in Limiting Bandwidth (Help me name this thread):
@dashrender said in Limiting Bandwidth (Help me name this thread):
@wirestyle22 said in Limiting Bandwidth (Help me name this thread):
We have a client who wants VoIP but is maxing out their download capabilities due to streaming internet video. My co-worker wants to setup VLAN 1 for VoIP and VLAN 2 for everything else. VLAN 1 would be plugged into Port 1 on the Firewall, VLAN 2 would be plugged into Port 2 on the firewall. Then, from the firewall he wants to limit the amount of bandwidth VLAN 1 (everything but voip) can use in order to assure the customer that their phones will be functional.
I'm hoping there is a better way to limit them without needing to use VLAN's. This customer will not purchase any new hardware short of the phones themselves.
Not sure this is possible. The incoming traffic will come from whatever random source as fast as that source can send it. You have no control.
What I don't know is - if you limit connections like youtube to say 1 Mb total allowed, will that keep youtube from flooding your inbound pipe?
My co-worker is saying it can, but I don't believe anything he says which is why I'm asking. Reminds me of QoS which is entirely within the LAN
If he's saying it can, then that means he knows how to do it, right?
By definition, he'd have to.
This is the whole thing - if he knows it can be done - then tell him to do it.. because as we all assumed from the beginning, you can't control what the upstream is sending you.
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@wirestyle22 said in Limiting Bandwidth (Help me name this thread):
@dashrender said in Limiting Bandwidth (Help me name this thread):
@wirestyle22 said in Limiting Bandwidth (Help me name this thread):
@dashrender said in Limiting Bandwidth (Help me name this thread):
@wirestyle22 said in Limiting Bandwidth (Help me name this thread):
@dashrender said in Limiting Bandwidth (Help me name this thread):
@wirestyle22 said in Limiting Bandwidth (Help me name this thread):
We have a client who wants VoIP but is maxing out their download capabilities due to streaming internet video. My co-worker wants to setup VLAN 1 for VoIP and VLAN 2 for everything else. VLAN 1 would be plugged into Port 1 on the Firewall, VLAN 2 would be plugged into Port 2 on the firewall. Then, from the firewall he wants to limit the amount of bandwidth VLAN 1 (everything but voip) can use in order to assure the customer that their phones will be functional.
I'm hoping there is a better way to limit them without needing to use VLAN's. This customer will not purchase any new hardware short of the phones themselves.
Not sure this is possible. The incoming traffic will come from whatever random source as fast as that source can send it. You have no control.
What I don't know is - if you limit connections like youtube to say 1 Mb total allowed, will that keep youtube from flooding your inbound pipe?
My co-worker is saying it can, but I don't believe anything he says which is why I'm asking. Reminds me of QoS which is entirely within the LAN
If he's saying it can, then that means he knows how to do it, right?
He asked me what the best way to achieve this would be, but I have no idea what he's talking about. You can manage the 1 KB request to YouTube, but not the resulting download AFAIK
Well, I think you can affect the download, but only once it reaches the firewall. Limit inbound from youtube to say 1 Mbps, but still at the start Youtube could flood you with 10 Mbps and the firewall would have packets stacking up, but I do believe that some form of return traffic to youtube must tell them to slow down/reduce quality (aka fewer packets or smaller ones) so things don't stack up..
but you'd likely have to manage that for every site on the internet.
Yeah he's asking per device, not per website. He says it's possible but I've never seen it so I really don't know
Why would he care about each device? That's just loads of manual work for no reason. Man, this guy LOVES his manual, pointless wasted effort.
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@wirestyle22 said in Limiting Bandwidth (Help me name this thread):
I think Watchguard Firewalls have the ability to define maximum bandwidth as a rule, but I have not played with it enough to know how it functions and I was thinking that is only for the LAN itself.
Sure, but that would just make things worse, not better. You can call your ISP and lower your speed if that's all you want.
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@scottalanmiller Totally agree that it doesn't make sense and did tell him that
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@wirestyle22 said in Limiting Bandwidth (Help me name this thread):
@momurda I'm telling you what my co-worker told me which doesn't make a lot of sense to me. He wants to partition the switch for half the ports to be vlan 1 and half to be vlan 2 and then he wants to create interfaces on the firewall for each.
The issue here is that his goal is to have VLANs, not to have VLANs for a purpose. He wants loads of extra work, that is manual, to drive up billing rates. That's all. There is nothing in what he is suggesting to support good networking or VoIP or anything of the sort. He's just trying to run the stock "VoIP network scam" that every reseller does.
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@scottalanmiller So he is getting DDOS? Come on.
I can easily set the bandwidth on my external fw port to a value between 1 and 1000Mb/s, and whatever that limit is cant be exceeded. No device on the internal network will pull more than this from outside, ever. Not sure why anybody would want to do that as i said earlier, but it is possible.
I could even set the bandwidth max on an internal fw port to any of these values for the same effect. -
I don't understand why "HEY USERS, STOP WATCHING YOUTUBE ALL DAY!!!!" isn't the obvious solution here. Your coworker wants to use tech to solve a people issue. No video streaming = no more bandwidth issues.
