How do ISPs get business?
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@dashrender said in How do ISPs get business?:
@markferron said in How do ISPs get business?:
e cable company competing in the same area, but no more. From what I've been told, the local government usually dictates
Google Fiber ran their own fiber in the towns they moved into. They invested 100's of millions so they weren't beholden to the incumbents.
But still had to fight hard against local laws and paid off politicians trying to block them buying into the cities.
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@markferron said in How do ISPs get business?:
@jaredbusch said in How do ISPs get business?:
@markferron said in How do ISPs get business?:
So random question I've been thinking about today...
How does a new ISP compete in a crowded city? Where I'm from, you'll almost always see one DSL company, and usually one cable company competing in the same area, but no more. From what I've been told, the local government usually dictates which ISPs can operate in a certain area because of the physical limitations of installing their hardware. Is that true? If it is, how does another potential ISP "move in" on area already provided for?Generally by purchasing bulk access form the incumbent carrier.
When DSL was first booming, SBC (come AT&T) was required to sell to a CLEC at fixed rates so the CLEC could offer DSL.
It was all AT&T plant and gear, but the consumer never knew that unless shit hit the fan.
WOW does run their own last mile, but I have no idea if they own the entire thing.
So basically, it's impossible to get rid of crappy DSL companies by complaining to your local officials?
I wouldn't say it's impossible, but very difficult. You have to find out what type of exclusive (if any) contracts the city has with the incumbents, what kind of access for new cable are available, then start a campaign and get the citizens behind you to put pressure on the officials to make change.
I've been mulling it over if it's worth the effort for me to start a campaign like that here.
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@markferron said in How do ISPs get business?:
@jaredbusch said in How do ISPs get business?:
@markferron said in How do ISPs get business?:
So random question I've been thinking about today...
How does a new ISP compete in a crowded city? Where I'm from, you'll almost always see one DSL company, and usually one cable company competing in the same area, but no more. From what I've been told, the local government usually dictates which ISPs can operate in a certain area because of the physical limitations of installing their hardware. Is that true? If it is, how does another potential ISP "move in" on area already provided for?Generally by purchasing bulk access form the incumbent carrier.
When DSL was first booming, SBC (come AT&T) was required to sell to a CLEC at fixed rates so the CLEC could offer DSL.
It was all AT&T plant and gear, but the consumer never knew that unless shit hit the fan.
WOW does run their own last mile, but I have no idea if they own the entire thing.
So basically, it's impossible to get rid of crappy DSL companies by complaining to your local officials?
Correct, because the DSL providers are, by definition, the phone companies.
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I was reading JB's and other talking about getting 100 Mb/s + for around $30-40/month. Others are talking about getting 1 Gb/s for $70/m.
Here in Nebraska in Cox land, 150/20 Mb/s cost $80/m for residential.
100/20 for business costs $350/m -
We have WOW in SE Michigan at work, $115 for 240/15. I have it at home, too. I signed up back when they were new to the area and the customer service and prices were awesome, now they are assholes just like the big guys. I absolutely dread talking to them.
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@dashrender said in How do ISPs get business?:
I was reading JB's and other talking about getting 100 Mb/s + for around $30-40/month. Others are talking about getting 1 Gb/s for $70/m.
Here in Nebraska in Cox land, 150/20 Mb/s cost $80/m for residential.
100/20 for business costs $350/mHere in the town I'm in there is only Windstream. 15 Mb/s for $60 a month, ridiculous. Basically government blessed robbery.
The town over I had TruVista and they charged $10/month for the Wi-Fi feature on their modem/router/AP combos. We obviously opted out, but they still charged us $5/month for the modem rental along with $90/month with the fees for 50 Mb/s. These companies make they're money back on the hardware "rental" fees alone. -
@jt1001001 said in How do ISPs get business?:
@jaredbusch any idea if WOW is any good? Have availability for one of our offices in South Carolina but I never heard of them.
I do not use them for anything except internet service.
I have only had their service since May and there was one out at about 1am a couple months ago. It sucked as I was in the middle of a deployment. By the time I got through to support the issue was resolved (Approximately 30 minutes). I forced them to open a case number for historical record anyway.
Never dealt with them for anything else.
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@dashrender said in How do ISPs get business?:
I was reading JB's and other talking about getting 100 Mb/s + for around $30-40/month. Others are talking about getting 1 Gb/s for $70/m.
Here in Nebraska in Cox land, 150/20 Mb/s cost $80/m for residential.
100/20 for business costs $350/mMy hometown (not where I live) offers a municipal fiber service for good pricing. Gigabit is still $400 though.
http://www.highlandcommunicationservices.com/HCSResInt.phpIn Quincy Illinois, a local CLEC decided to roll out fiber. They had an awesome pre-reg deal of gigabit for $75 per month for life. Normal price now that they are all deployed is $200 per month for gigabit.
http://www.followthefiber.net/fiber-internet/ -
@markferron said in How do ISPs get business?:
So random question I've been thinking about today...
How does a new ISP compete in a crowded city? Where I'm from, you'll almost always see one DSL company, and usually one cable company competing in the same area, but no more. From what I've been told, the local government usually dictates which ISPs can operate in a certain area because of the physical limitations of installing their hardware. Is that true? If it is, how does another potential ISP "move in" on area already provided for?No one can block a CLEC from buying access from the area's ILEC. Preferential treatment may be given to the ILEC to encourage a build out, where there are no services. This is very rare now though unless you are in a remote area.
"Rolling your own copper" can be restricted in areas where telecom operators were not granted telco tariffs to recover their cost. It would have to be a very undeveloped area these days and it doesnt sound like you are in that.
What city or area are you in? Its very likely there is plenty of dark fiber and half empty neutral tandem available to you. You just need to rent space and install a DSLAM, order dry pair circuits from the closest CO you have a DSLAM in to your customers address and patch in, feed off a Fiber connection from a carrier circuit.
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@markferron said in How do ISPs get business?:
@jaredbusch said in How do ISPs get business?:
@markferron said in How do ISPs get business?:
So random question I've been thinking about today...
How does a new ISP compete in a crowded city? Where I'm from, you'll almost always see one DSL company, and usually one cable company competing in the same area, but no more. From what I've been told, the local government usually dictates which ISPs can operate in a certain area because of the physical limitations of installing their hardware. Is that true? If it is, how does another potential ISP "move in" on area already provided for?Generally by purchasing bulk access form the incumbent carrier.
When DSL was first booming, SBC (come AT&T) was required to sell to a CLEC at fixed rates so the CLEC could offer DSL.
It was all AT&T plant and gear, but the consumer never knew that unless shit hit the fan.
WOW does run their own last mile, but I have no idea if they own the entire thing.
So basically, it's impossible to get rid of crappy DSL companies by complaining to your local officials?
They will go away if no one uses their services. They have a right to operate.
The reason there may only be 1 or 2 is because often the bigger one buys up the competitor early on. Extremely common.
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@markferron said in How do ISPs get business?:
@mike-davis said in How do ISPs get business?:
In some areas a company will run fiber for a circuit so large it makes sense to rent space on a utility pole to do it. Then they send their sales guys out to pound the pavement along that route to bring on more clients to make it profitable. If their build out costs are high, they aren't going to waste time knocking on your door.
Sorry, so who's renting the space on the utility pole?
You can rent utility pole access from the ILEC, usually $5 to $10 per pole per month for access. We have even done it to run fiber between several car dealerships across roads where we couldn't bore under.
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@markferron said in How do ISPs get business?:
@dashrender said in How do ISPs get business?:
I was reading JB's and other talking about getting 100 Mb/s + for around $30-40/month. Others are talking about getting 1 Gb/s for $70/m.
Here in Nebraska in Cox land, 150/20 Mb/s cost $80/m for residential.
100/20 for business costs $350/mHere in the town I'm in there is only Windstream. 15 Mb/s for $60 a month, ridiculous. Basically government blessed robbery.
The town over I had TruVista and they charged $10/month for the Wi-Fi feature on their modem/router/AP combos. We obviously opted out, but they still charged us $5/month for the modem rental along with $90/month with the fees for 50 Mb/s. These companies make they're money back on the hardware "rental" fees alone.Windstream is a great example of a company who constantly buys up competitors, even larger ones like Nuvox. In a grander scheme they were acquired by Mcleoud or Paetec, cant remember anymore.
They aren't good about restructuring their networks afterwards like cable operators are. They just keep everything in place.
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@markferron said in How do ISPs get business?:
So random question I've been thinking about today...
How does a new ISP compete in a crowded city? Where I'm from, you'll almost always see one DSL company, and usually one cable company competing in the same area, but no more. From what I've been told, the local government usually dictates which ISPs can operate in a certain area because of the physical limitations of installing their hardware. Is that true? If it is, how does another potential ISP "move in" on area already provided for?And on your original question "How do ISP's get business". Its all direct mailers, sales reps walking in the door and billboards with price-specific offers in the beginning.
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@bigbear said in How do ISPs get business?:
@markferron said in How do ISPs get business?:
@dashrender said in How do ISPs get business?:
I was reading JB's and other talking about getting 100 Mb/s + for around $30-40/month. Others are talking about getting 1 Gb/s for $70/m.
Here in Nebraska in Cox land, 150/20 Mb/s cost $80/m for residential.
100/20 for business costs $350/mHere in the town I'm in there is only Windstream. 15 Mb/s for $60 a month, ridiculous. Basically government blessed robbery.
The town over I had TruVista and they charged $10/month for the Wi-Fi feature on their modem/router/AP combos. We obviously opted out, but they still charged us $5/month for the modem rental along with $90/month with the fees for 50 Mb/s. These companies make they're money back on the hardware "rental" fees alone.Windstream is a great example of a company who constantly buys up competitors, even larger ones like Nuvox. In a grander scheme they were acquired by Mcleoud or Paetec, cant remember anymore.
They aren't good about restructuring their networks afterwards like cable operators are. They just keep everything in place.
Paetec. Paetec changed their name to Windstream to hide because they had built such a bad reputation and burned their own brand to the ground.
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@scottalanmiller said in How do ISPs get business?:
@bigbear said in How do ISPs get business?:
@markferron said in How do ISPs get business?:
@dashrender said in How do ISPs get business?:
I was reading JB's and other talking about getting 100 Mb/s + for around $30-40/month. Others are talking about getting 1 Gb/s for $70/m.
Here in Nebraska in Cox land, 150/20 Mb/s cost $80/m for residential.
100/20 for business costs $350/mHere in the town I'm in there is only Windstream. 15 Mb/s for $60 a month, ridiculous. Basically government blessed robbery.
The town over I had TruVista and they charged $10/month for the Wi-Fi feature on their modem/router/AP combos. We obviously opted out, but they still charged us $5/month for the modem rental along with $90/month with the fees for 50 Mb/s. These companies make they're money back on the hardware "rental" fees alone.Windstream is a great example of a company who constantly buys up competitors, even larger ones like Nuvox. In a grander scheme they were acquired by Mcleoud or Paetec, cant remember anymore.
They aren't good about restructuring their networks afterwards like cable operators are. They just keep everything in place.
Paetec. Paetec changed their name to Windstream to hide because they had built such a bad reputation and burned their own brand to the ground.
I think PAETEC bought McLeod and Allworx then Windstream bought PAETEC.
McLeod used to be the envy and pipe dream of every startup CLEC. Mostly because no one could foresee the feasibility of OTT voip back then...
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@bigbear said in How do ISPs get business?:
@scottalanmiller said in How do ISPs get business?:
@bigbear said in How do ISPs get business?:
@markferron said in How do ISPs get business?:
@dashrender said in How do ISPs get business?:
I was reading JB's and other talking about getting 100 Mb/s + for around $30-40/month. Others are talking about getting 1 Gb/s for $70/m.
Here in Nebraska in Cox land, 150/20 Mb/s cost $80/m for residential.
100/20 for business costs $350/mHere in the town I'm in there is only Windstream. 15 Mb/s for $60 a month, ridiculous. Basically government blessed robbery.
The town over I had TruVista and they charged $10/month for the Wi-Fi feature on their modem/router/AP combos. We obviously opted out, but they still charged us $5/month for the modem rental along with $90/month with the fees for 50 Mb/s. These companies make they're money back on the hardware "rental" fees alone.Windstream is a great example of a company who constantly buys up competitors, even larger ones like Nuvox. In a grander scheme they were acquired by Mcleoud or Paetec, cant remember anymore.
They aren't good about restructuring their networks afterwards like cable operators are. They just keep everything in place.
Paetec. Paetec changed their name to Windstream to hide because they had built such a bad reputation and burned their own brand to the ground.
I think PAETEC bought McLeod and Allworx then Windstream bought PAETEC.
That's what Paetec wanted people to think. Paetec was the buyer, though. That's why it was a big deal that they took on the name of the company that they bought, rather than keeping the name of the parent.
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@scottalanmiller Windstream bought Paetec. Period. There may have been some back room handshaking, but when it was all said and done Windstream was buying Paetec legally. Not the other way around. To continue claiming otherwise, you need to show proof. To verify my recollection, I poked at SEC filings and they all state Windstream bought Paetec.
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1282266/000128226616000059/a201510k.htm
MATERIAL ACQUISITIONS AND DISPOSITIONS
Acquisitions
On November 30, 2011, we acquired PAETEC Holding Corp. in an all stock transaction valued at approximately $2.4 billion. In this transaction, we added an attractive base of medium to large-sized business customers, approximately 36,700 fiber route miles, seven data centers, and an experienced sales force focused on serving enterprise-level customers.
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Huh, that's different from everything that I had heard. Being from Paetec's home town, there was a lot of bragging of this and deals made with the city because of it. But you are right, looks like they just lied about it. But of course, they lie about everything, so that's not really surprising.
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Paetec basically bragged to us they were buying Windstream . Our Sales Rep, the Master Account Rep even one of the VP's came to our office and said "buying" not "being bought". Proof though is in the pudding as you can see from @JaredBusch
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