Is Most IT Really Corrupt?
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@tirendir said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
I got my foot in the door on the cheap, but am now paid on-par with typical for-profit contemporaries in my area ....
On par for non-profits, though, still means very underpaid for the market. Non-profit is not an expertise area within IT. IT is the same pay regardless of the organization type, it's a single market.
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@dashrender said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
@scottalanmiller said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
@dashrender said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
@storageninja said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
Equity owners in SMB's often expect everyone to work like they have equity even when they don't is a common issue I see. the "We view our company like family" I often find translated to "We wish we could claim the labor exemptions for overtime and wages that farmers can for their 13 yr old kids!"
I totally saw where you were going with this as I was reading it, and while I've never really thought about it this way, you're absolutely right! They think everyone should work as hard as they do, likely completely forgetting that no one else gets bonuses/profit sharing in most SMB cases, so why would they ever care about your SMB as much as the owners do?
What's really weird is IT people tend to care even more than the owners!
I wonder if that's true? I know that I care more about the IT side of things than the owners do.. but as for the business as a whole - I can't say yes or no.
IT = the business. They are one and the same. You can't separate them and only care about one or the other.
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@scottalanmiller I was saying that I'm paid on par with the regular for-profit market now. I think we all know that non-profit as a whole is notorious for underpaying employees, I was pointing out that for me, that is no longer the case as I am paid on-par with the rest of the market after excluding the effects of non-profits on IT pay.
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@tirendir said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
... since it nicely improved my resume to where I can get a job virtually anywhere I want if and when I decide it's time to move on.
Yes, I would agree that it sounds like it was a good gamble. I'd also argue that they don't value you (underpaying you is the same as telling you that they don't think much of you) and you should move on sooner than later. The longer you wait to move on, the more you are donating your career to them when they don't even value your contributions. You've likely exhausted the resume building value that you gambled on and if you don't leverage it, it will fade away, and quickly. Also, lots of companies require your tax records to verify your "level" and a good role with low pay can become a barrier to the next position.
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@tirendir said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
@scottalanmiller I was saying that I'm paid on par with the regular for-profit market now.
OH, I thought you were saying on par just for the non-profit segment.
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@scottalanmiller said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
@dashrender said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
@scottalanmiller said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
@dashrender said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
@storageninja said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
Equity owners in SMB's often expect everyone to work like they have equity even when they don't is a common issue I see. the "We view our company like family" I often find translated to "We wish we could claim the labor exemptions for overtime and wages that farmers can for their 13 yr old kids!"
I totally saw where you were going with this as I was reading it, and while I've never really thought about it this way, you're absolutely right! They think everyone should work as hard as they do, likely completely forgetting that no one else gets bonuses/profit sharing in most SMB cases, so why would they ever care about your SMB as much as the owners do?
What's really weird is IT people tend to care even more than the owners!
I wonder if that's true? I know that I care more about the IT side of things than the owners do.. but as for the business as a whole - I can't say yes or no.
IT = the business. They are one and the same. You can't separate them and only care about one or the other.
I'm trying to find the name of the job that supports the technical stuff in a company without being a decision maker - because according to you, IT= the business, basically makes them a C level part of the company along with CEO and COO, etc. So what do you call the people in the trenches doing the work after the decisions are made?
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@dashrender said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
@scottalanmiller said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
@dashrender said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
@scottalanmiller said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
@dashrender said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
@storageninja said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
Equity owners in SMB's often expect everyone to work like they have equity even when they don't is a common issue I see. the "We view our company like family" I often find translated to "We wish we could claim the labor exemptions for overtime and wages that farmers can for their 13 yr old kids!"
I totally saw where you were going with this as I was reading it, and while I've never really thought about it this way, you're absolutely right! They think everyone should work as hard as they do, likely completely forgetting that no one else gets bonuses/profit sharing in most SMB cases, so why would they ever care about your SMB as much as the owners do?
What's really weird is IT people tend to care even more than the owners!
I wonder if that's true? I know that I care more about the IT side of things than the owners do.. but as for the business as a whole - I can't say yes or no.
IT = the business. They are one and the same. You can't separate them and only care about one or the other.
I'm trying to find the name of the job that supports the technical stuff in a company without being a decision maker - because according to you, IT= the business, basically makes them a C level part of the company along with CEO and COO, etc. So what do you call the people in the trenches doing the work after the decisions are made?
You are confusing IT being business with all IT department staff being C suite workers. Do you feel that every operational business person is the CEO? Of course not. Just because something is "the business" doesn't make them "the owner."
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What you are missing is that IT and business are the same thing, IT is not an ancillary department with its own concerns. IT doesn't exist without a business context. An IT decision is a business decision, there can be no separation, it doesn't even make any sense. How do you ever decide what to do in IT without answering "how does it help the business?" You can't, of course, because IT is an aspect of a business. IT is just the infrastructure component of the business, nothing more. It's not a department with its own objectives.
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@scottalanmiller said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
@dashrender said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
@scottalanmiller said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
@dashrender said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
@scottalanmiller said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
@dashrender said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
@storageninja said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
Equity owners in SMB's often expect everyone to work like they have equity even when they don't is a common issue I see. the "We view our company like family" I often find translated to "We wish we could claim the labor exemptions for overtime and wages that farmers can for their 13 yr old kids!"
I totally saw where you were going with this as I was reading it, and while I've never really thought about it this way, you're absolutely right! They think everyone should work as hard as they do, likely completely forgetting that no one else gets bonuses/profit sharing in most SMB cases, so why would they ever care about your SMB as much as the owners do?
What's really weird is IT people tend to care even more than the owners!
I wonder if that's true? I know that I care more about the IT side of things than the owners do.. but as for the business as a whole - I can't say yes or no.
IT = the business. They are one and the same. You can't separate them and only care about one or the other.
I'm trying to find the name of the job that supports the technical stuff in a company without being a decision maker - because according to you, IT= the business, basically makes them a C level part of the company along with CEO and COO, etc. So what do you call the people in the trenches doing the work after the decisions are made?
You are confusing IT being business with all IT department staff being C suite workers. Do you feel that every operational business person is the CEO? Of course not. Just because something is "the business" doesn't make them "the owner."
No I'm asking you to list what I call myself when I'm not a decision maker - and it looks like you call them the IT department.
In that case - The IT department cares more about the IT aspect of the company, and since I'm not the decision maker, I can't say if IT cares about the company or not.
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@dashrender said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
No I'm asking you to list what I call myself when I'm not a decision maker - and it looks like you call them the IT department.
You make zero decisions? You are literally nothing but remote hands for someone else?
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@dashrender said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
In that case - The IT department cares more about the IT aspect of the company, and since I'm not the decision maker, I can't say if IT cares about the company or not.
Can you define an "IT aspect of the company" because I can't. All of the company is equally an IT aspect. All IT decisions are based around "what is best for the bottom line". The entire company is equally an IT aspect. IT caring means caring about the business.
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@scottalanmiller said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
@dashrender said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
No I'm asking you to list what I call myself when I'm not a decision maker - and it looks like you call them the IT department.
You make zero decisions? You are literally nothing but remote hands for someone else?
The decisions I make are pretty minor in my mind - is this PC ready to be rebuilt? replaced? But otherwise, I only make recommendations - I think our 10 year old server should be replaced, the warranty costs more than a new server would, otherwise it's doing the job we need, etc.
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@dashrender said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
@scottalanmiller said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
@dashrender said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
No I'm asking you to list what I call myself when I'm not a decision maker - and it looks like you call them the IT department.
You make zero decisions? You are literally nothing but remote hands for someone else?
The decisions I make are pretty minor in my mind - is this PC ready to be rebuilt? replaced? But otherwise, I only make recommendations - I think our 10 year old server should be replaced, the warranty costs more than a new server would, otherwise it's doing the job we need, etc.
Does "minor" matter? I don't see how.
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@dashrender said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
The decisions I make are pretty minor in my mind - is this PC ready to be rebuilt? replaced?
Take this example, no matter how minor, your decision is based purely around value to the organization. 100% business value to the business bottom line. Just because the decision is small or limited doesn't change that it is about the business and not about IT as some abstract non-business concept.
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@dashrender said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
But otherwise, I only make recommendations - I think our 10 year old server should be replaced, the warranty costs more than a new server would, otherwise it's doing the job we need, etc.
And how do you make any recommendation without the context of it being made to aid the business?
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@scottalanmiller said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
@dashrender said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
But otherwise, I only make recommendations - I think our 10 year old server should be replaced, the warranty costs more than a new server would, otherwise it's doing the job we need, etc.
And how do you make any recommendation without the context of it being made to aid the business?
Then I'm lost how you say IT cares more about the business than the owner/CEO does? They don't know the IT side of things, so they more or less have to rely on others to help them, if they choose not to follow those recommendations is another matter.
But in the things they do understand - I fully expect that they do what they consider best for the company. IT's role is limited in scope, the CEO/owners is the whole company.
I guess I'm missing what you're trying to say.
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@dashrender scope isn't a factor in caring. It's easy for IT to care more. All it takes is... caring more. IT tends to be more concerned with better decisions than owners are. Owners in the SMB are often distracted by emotional responses instead of focusing on the business.
How often do we see an owner get a recommendation made for the good of the business yet then do the exact opposite in spite of the business needs? All the time, to the point of it just being expected. That's caring more. One cared about the business, one cared about something else.
Does all IT care? Of course not, hence this thread. Is it totally common for IT to care more about the business than the owner? Yes, also very common.
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@dashrender said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
I'm trying to find the name of the job that supports the technical stuff in a company without being a decision maker - because according to you, IT= the business, basically makes them a C level part of the company along with CEO and COO, etc. So what do you call the people in the trenches doing the work after the decisions are made?
Going from a typical oil/gas major 3 tier's of fun...
Architects make design decisions, engineers do the implementations, operations keep things... running.
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@dashrender said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
Then I'm lost how you say IT cares more about the business than the owner/CEO does? They don't know the IT side of things, so they more or less have to rely on others to help them, if they choose not to follow those recommendations is another matter.
Lifestyle businesses where they don't care about making money beyond xxx amount to maintain their lifestyle. Pretty common in SMB.
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@storageninja said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
@dashrender said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
Then I'm lost how you say IT cares more about the business than the owner/CEO does? They don't know the IT side of things, so they more or less have to rely on others to help them, if they choose not to follow those recommendations is another matter.
Lifestyle businesses where they don't care about making money beyond xxx amount to maintain their lifestyle. Pretty common in SMB.
Is there a problem with that type of thinking?
