Why Linux is Hard for Windows Users but Easy for Newbies
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@DustinB3403 said in Why Linux is Hard for Windows Users but Easy for Newbies:
@scottalanmiller said in Why Linux is Hard for Windows Users but Easy for Newbies:
@DustinB3403 said in Why Linux is Hard for Windows Users but Easy for Newbies:
My gaming rig constantly has issues with drivers. Drives me a bit nuts for what I spent on the hardware.
But for gaming I'll make due.
For Windows or Linux or both?
Gaming = Windows
Didn't we have this conversation before?
I thought that you might have added linux too, didn't you mention that at some point?
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@scottalanmiller said in Why Linux is Hard for Windows Users but Easy for Newbies:
@Tim_G said in Why Linux is Hard for Windows Users but Easy for Newbies:
@scottalanmiller said in Why Linux is Hard for Windows Users but Easy for Newbies:
@Tim_G said in Why Linux is Hard for Windows Users but Easy for Newbies:
@scottalanmiller said in Why Linux is Hard for Windows Users but Easy for Newbies:
But I think that this discussion is proving my point and the article's point, right? The people seeing Linux as hard are coming FROM Windows, right? But if I get Linux for my sister in law who barely uses a computer she says it "just works and is so much better than what she had." That's the entire point, that people with Windows experience perceive issues with Linux that those without the Windows experience tend not to have issues with.
That's not a Linux thing, though.
That means you are giving your sister in law an appliance. Really, a web browsing and email appliance. A stripped down piece of hardware with basic components and minimal functionality, that's pretty much restricted. That's why it "just works".
You can do that with anything, not just Linux.
Except doing the exact same thing with windows didn't work as well. So you can do it with anything... that's easily like Linux. It wasn't stripped down or special, it was a full Ubuntu OS. If a normal Windows desktop is an appliance, then... okay. But that's a weird way to think of it.
In your example, what made the computer unusable? What was the issue? Why did Windows not work, but Ubuntu did?
Because Windows was hard, required more maintenance that they didn't understand, drivers were flaky or required more knowledge - they couldn't just plug things in and know that they would work like on Linux. Wasn't as extreme as my wife's case where the Windows machine was actively unstable and Linux has been rock solid. it was more subtle. but the point was that it was an instant "totally easy to use", from the moment go. No issues at all.
It all depends on the use case, hardware, and software being used.
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@scottalanmiller said in Why Linux is Hard for Windows Users but Easy for Newbies:
@DustinB3403 said in Why Linux is Hard for Windows Users but Easy for Newbies:
@scottalanmiller said in Why Linux is Hard for Windows Users but Easy for Newbies:
@DustinB3403 said in Why Linux is Hard for Windows Users but Easy for Newbies:
My gaming rig constantly has issues with drivers. Drives me a bit nuts for what I spent on the hardware.
But for gaming I'll make due.
For Windows or Linux or both?
Gaming = Windows
Didn't we have this conversation before?
I thought that you might have added linux too, didn't you mention that at some point?
Only when you couldn't get anything but Ubuntu on your rog.
I created a live boot USB and was operational in seconds.
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The point of people coming from Windows to Linux, though is that using Windows actively makes using Linux, according to the article, actually harder than not having the experience at all. As in someone with effectively no computer experience will often fare better than someone with loads of Windows specific experience. Because the behaviours are so radically different, it makes people look for and/or create problems where none necessarily exist on their own or when used in a more intuitive way.
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@scottalanmiller said in Why Linux is Hard for Windows Users but Easy for Newbies:
@Tim_G said in Why Linux is Hard for Windows Users but Easy for Newbies:
@scottalanmiller said in Why Linux is Hard for Windows Users but Easy for Newbies:
You keep saying that Linux won't work, but for the people who aren't Windows users, they seem to find that it does work - really well.
There's a term for that, can't think of it at the moment.
It's demographics or something. You're taking a survey of a group of people for the wrong reasons, getting results exactly you'd expect... but it's the wrong group of people you are surveying. You need an equal mix. You can't just take all the non-Windows users and form a real opinion based on their results.
For example, non-Windows users will find Linux to just work. Just like you'll find non-Linux users to find Windows to just work.
Man I really wish I could think of this concept right now... it's after midnight for me
Well the point of the article is that there is specifically a difficulty in using Linux for people coming from Windows. It's not unexpected, if you really think about it. Any time you have a group that has trained on something they come to expect that behaviour.
There's so many variables.
I bet great grandma comfortable with using Windows would be equally comfortable with using Ubuntu...
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@Tim_G said in Why Linux is Hard for Windows Users but Easy for Newbies:
@scottalanmiller said in Why Linux is Hard for Windows Users but Easy for Newbies:
@Tim_G said in Why Linux is Hard for Windows Users but Easy for Newbies:
@scottalanmiller said in Why Linux is Hard for Windows Users but Easy for Newbies:
You keep saying that Linux won't work, but for the people who aren't Windows users, they seem to find that it does work - really well.
There's a term for that, can't think of it at the moment.
It's demographics or something. You're taking a survey of a group of people for the wrong reasons, getting results exactly you'd expect... but it's the wrong group of people you are surveying. You need an equal mix. You can't just take all the non-Windows users and form a real opinion based on their results.
For example, non-Windows users will find Linux to just work. Just like you'll find non-Linux users to find Windows to just work.
Man I really wish I could think of this concept right now... it's after midnight for me
Well the point of the article is that there is specifically a difficulty in using Linux for people coming from Windows. It's not unexpected, if you really think about it. Any time you have a group that has trained on something they come to expect that behaviour.
There's so many variables.
I bet great grandma comfortable with using Windows would be equally comfortable with using Ubuntu...
Your seeing past the conversation at hand.
People with little to no computer experience often fair better using Linux than they do Windows.
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@Tim_G said in Why Linux is Hard for Windows Users but Easy for Newbies:
I bet great grandma comfortable with using Windows would be equally comfortable with using Ubuntu...
That was the point of the article, yes. Comfort with Windows creates a discomfort with Linux.
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@DustinB3403 said in Why Linux is Hard for Windows Users but Easy for Newbies:
@Tim_G said in Why Linux is Hard for Windows Users but Easy for Newbies:
@scottalanmiller said in Why Linux is Hard for Windows Users but Easy for Newbies:
@Tim_G said in Why Linux is Hard for Windows Users but Easy for Newbies:
@scottalanmiller said in Why Linux is Hard for Windows Users but Easy for Newbies:
You keep saying that Linux won't work, but for the people who aren't Windows users, they seem to find that it does work - really well.
There's a term for that, can't think of it at the moment.
It's demographics or something. You're taking a survey of a group of people for the wrong reasons, getting results exactly you'd expect... but it's the wrong group of people you are surveying. You need an equal mix. You can't just take all the non-Windows users and form a real opinion based on their results.
For example, non-Windows users will find Linux to just work. Just like you'll find non-Linux users to find Windows to just work.
Man I really wish I could think of this concept right now... it's after midnight for me
Well the point of the article is that there is specifically a difficulty in using Linux for people coming from Windows. It's not unexpected, if you really think about it. Any time you have a group that has trained on something they come to expect that behaviour.
There's so many variables.
I bet great grandma comfortable with using Windows would be equally comfortable with using Ubuntu...
Your seeing past the conversation at hand.
People with little to no computer experience often far better using Linux than they do Windows.
If it works. And, until it breaks. Other than that, yes I agree with the article.
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@DustinB3403 said in Why Linux is Hard for Windows Users but Easy for Newbies:
@Tim_G said in Why Linux is Hard for Windows Users but Easy for Newbies:
@scottalanmiller said in Why Linux is Hard for Windows Users but Easy for Newbies:
@Tim_G said in Why Linux is Hard for Windows Users but Easy for Newbies:
@scottalanmiller said in Why Linux is Hard for Windows Users but Easy for Newbies:
You keep saying that Linux won't work, but for the people who aren't Windows users, they seem to find that it does work - really well.
There's a term for that, can't think of it at the moment.
It's demographics or something. You're taking a survey of a group of people for the wrong reasons, getting results exactly you'd expect... but it's the wrong group of people you are surveying. You need an equal mix. You can't just take all the non-Windows users and form a real opinion based on their results.
For example, non-Windows users will find Linux to just work. Just like you'll find non-Linux users to find Windows to just work.
Man I really wish I could think of this concept right now... it's after midnight for me
Well the point of the article is that there is specifically a difficulty in using Linux for people coming from Windows. It's not unexpected, if you really think about it. Any time you have a group that has trained on something they come to expect that behaviour.
There's so many variables.
I bet great grandma comfortable with using Windows would be equally comfortable with using Ubuntu...
Your seeing past the conversation at hand.
People with little to no computer experience often fair better using Linux than they do Windows.
That's universally what I've seen, but it's an underpinning of the article which was actually...
People with little or no computer experience fare better with Linux than people with extensive Windows experience fare with Linux.
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@Tim_G said in Why Linux is Hard for Windows Users but Easy for Newbies:
@DustinB3403 said in Why Linux is Hard for Windows Users but Easy for Newbies:
@Tim_G said in Why Linux is Hard for Windows Users but Easy for Newbies:
@scottalanmiller said in Why Linux is Hard for Windows Users but Easy for Newbies:
@Tim_G said in Why Linux is Hard for Windows Users but Easy for Newbies:
@scottalanmiller said in Why Linux is Hard for Windows Users but Easy for Newbies:
You keep saying that Linux won't work, but for the people who aren't Windows users, they seem to find that it does work - really well.
There's a term for that, can't think of it at the moment.
It's demographics or something. You're taking a survey of a group of people for the wrong reasons, getting results exactly you'd expect... but it's the wrong group of people you are surveying. You need an equal mix. You can't just take all the non-Windows users and form a real opinion based on their results.
For example, non-Windows users will find Linux to just work. Just like you'll find non-Linux users to find Windows to just work.
Man I really wish I could think of this concept right now... it's after midnight for me
Well the point of the article is that there is specifically a difficulty in using Linux for people coming from Windows. It's not unexpected, if you really think about it. Any time you have a group that has trained on something they come to expect that behaviour.
There's so many variables.
I bet great grandma comfortable with using Windows would be equally comfortable with using Ubuntu...
Your seeing past the conversation at hand.
People with little to no computer experience often far better using Linux than they do Windows.
If it works. And, until it breaks. Other than that, yes I agree with the article.
I think it carries through those cases as well. If it works is a given, we are talking about using the OS here. When broken, Linux is easier to deal with for those people as well, I think. Windows gets exceptionally nasty when broken.
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Just for the record I went and found a box and found an old Windows web cam in it (made by Microsoft) and plugged it in to my Korora machine and it worked immediately. No configuration, no drivers, no software, nothing. Just plugged in and it was good to go.
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@scottalanmiller why would you be lugging around an old ass Microsoft webcam?
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@scottalanmiller said in Why Linux is Hard for Windows Users but Easy for Newbies:
Just for the record I went and found a box and found an old Windows web cam in it (made by Microsoft) and plugged it in to my Korora machine and it worked immediately. No configuration, no drivers, no software, nothing. Just plugged in and it was good to go.
Yep, I've experience that same thing when I had a camera that was designed for 7 but won't work with 10. But works instantly on Ubuntu.
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@DustinB3403 said in Why Linux is Hard for Windows Users but Easy for Newbies:
@scottalanmiller why would you be lugging around an old ass Microsoft webcam?
It's actually quite nice.
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@black3dynamite said in Why Linux is Hard for Windows Users but Easy for Newbies:
@scottalanmiller said in Why Linux is Hard for Windows Users but Easy for Newbies:
Just for the record I went and found a box and found an old Windows web cam in it (made by Microsoft) and plugged it in to my Korora machine and it worked immediately. No configuration, no drivers, no software, nothing. Just plugged in and it was good to go.
Yep, I've experience that same thing when I had a camera that was designed for 7 but won't work with 10. But works instantly on Ubuntu.
I'm sure that it works on Windows 10... well moderately sure. I don't expect problems there with it, but it sure works great on Korora.
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@DustinB3403 said in Why Linux is Hard for Windows Users but Easy for Newbies:
@scottalanmiller why would you be lugging around an old ass Microsoft webcam?
Webcams barely changes enough to get rid of just because microsoft quit on it.
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@black3dynamite said in Why Linux is Hard for Windows Users but Easy for Newbies:
@DustinB3403 said in Why Linux is Hard for Windows Users but Easy for Newbies:
@scottalanmiller why would you be lugging around an old ass Microsoft webcam?
Webcams barely changes enough to get rid of just because microsoft quit on it.
It's 1080p and ... just works on Linux
What more do you want, really. -
@scottalanmiller
Besides Cinnamon, what other desktop environments do you recommend Windows users to try when they want to start using Linux?Mine are Cinnamon (Because of Linux Mint and Korora), Pantheon (Because of Elementary OS), Gnome and KDE.
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@black3dynamite said in Why Linux is Hard for Windows Users but Easy for Newbies:
@scottalanmiller
Besides Cinnamon, what other desktop environments do you recommend Windows users to try when they want to start using Linux?Mine are Cinnamon (Because of Linux Mint and Korora), Pantheon (Because of Elementary OS), Gnome and KDE.
Cinnamon is definitely where I normally recommend Windows converts look first because it is like what the future of Windows 7 would have been if it advanced far beyond Windows 10.
I like Budgie a lot, too. From the Solus project.
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@black3dynamite said in Why Linux is Hard for Windows Users but Easy for Newbies:
@scottalanmiller
Besides Cinnamon, what other desktop environments do you recommend Windows users to try when they want to start using Linux?Mine are Cinnamon (Because of Linux Mint and Korora), Pantheon (Because of Elementary OS), Gnome and KDE.
Fedora would be a decent setup.
