When Cloud is Not What You Signed Up For
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@Breffni-Potter said in When Cloud is Not What You Signed Up For:
Yes but surely what happened was just as stupid as me buying a single HCI hardware device, putting in a rack, then complaining about how Scale is an unreliable product because I went against their recommendations and decades of conventional IT wisdom.
I get they are trying to sell a product. But not putting production data in the cloud? Come on... Just like HCI you have to properly plan a cloud deployment. That includes investigating risks and understanding the cost of risk associated with the chosen path. Saying boiler plate that the cloud is not good for production data is just silly and flies in the face of all kinds of evidence to the contrary.
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@scale
This is why I don't like the word "cloud" and I try to avoid using it. It comes down to "your stuff" on somebody else's on-prem server(s). The only thing in between is, at some places, a single wire.People see cloud as this wondrous majestic place you are always connected to where nothing bad can happen. I see it as a couple of hard drives running outside in the shed, with a little wire running out the window across the lawn from your in-door server to your shed.
I like the "cloud", I use it, and I recommend it where it's warranted... but that doesn't mean I don't see it for what it really is. ^_^
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My preference for on prem covers many of the things you mentioned, but I'd add accountability as an explicit item.
If my gear fails, I own the issue, I fix the issue, I document it & learn from it - end of story.
With "someone else's computer" (I refuse to use that word) I struggle to own it, there's nothing I can do to fix it and all I learn is to be distrustful of it (create mitigation strategies).
There are clear cut use cases for both and I do not see a future without either.
#eggsinbaskets
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@MattSpeller said in When Cloud is Not What You Signed Up For:
My preference for on prem covers many of the things you mentioned, but I'd add accountability as an explicit item.
If my gear fails, I own the issue, I fix the issue, I document it & learn from it - end of story.
With "someone else's computer" (I refuse to use that word) I struggle to own it, there's nothing I can do to fix it and all I learn is to be distrustful of it (create mitigation strategies).
There are clear cut use cases for both and I do not see a future without either.
#eggsinbaskets
How is that any different in either use case? You could have easily controlled this current outage but implementing infrastructure that S3 and AWS offer, this is very much an I own it and therefore it was my issue it was down. Sure Amazon made a mistake but allowing your infrastructure to be compromised because of a vendor's mistake is no different locally or remotely. That's the same excuse as someone digging up the fiber in the front yard or a maintenance worker pulling a breaker because they didn't know what it went to.
"Cloud" means so much more the "someone else's computer" that's far too simple to really convey what a public cloud is, what it is designed to do, and how it works.
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@coliver said in When Cloud is Not What You Signed Up For:
"Cloud" means so much more the "someone else's computer" that's far too simple to really convey what a public cloud is, what it is designed to do, and how it works.
Far too simple to convey what it really is? Yeah, maybe. But it is an exact description of what it ultimately boils down to.
I'm paying AWS (for instance) to provide me with computing power (their computer). All the other bits and bobs are just details.
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@dafyre said in When Cloud is Not What You Signed Up For:
Far too simple to convey what it really is? Yeah, maybe. But it is an exact description of what it ultimately boils down to.
Well, that is what hosted means. It's not what cloud means. Cloud computing doesn't mean that it is someone else's at all. You can implement your own cloud 100% on premises totally controlled by you if you want. Only hosted simply means "someone else's computer." Cloud means much more (and less.)
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@dafyre said in When Cloud is Not What You Signed Up For:
@coliver said in When Cloud is Not What You Signed Up For:
"Cloud" means so much more the "someone else's computer" that's far too simple to really convey what a public cloud is, what it is designed to do, and how it works.
Far too simple to convey what it really is? Yeah, maybe. But it is an exact description of what it ultimately boils down to.
I'm paying AWS (for instance) to provide me with computing power (their computer). All the other bits and bobs are just details.
Right, but there is more to AWS, those bits and bobs are important in how you design an application to utilize cloud computing.
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@dafyre said in When Cloud is Not What You Signed Up For:
I'm paying AWS (for instance) to provide me with computing power (their computer). All the other bits and bobs are just details.
Well don't do that
AWS is not meant to be a black box. And it doesn't always mean off premises. AWS is available on-premises, too. (But boy is it expensive.) -
@scottalanmiller said in When Cloud is Not What You Signed Up For:
@dafyre said in When Cloud is Not What You Signed Up For:
Far too simple to convey what it really is? Yeah, maybe. But it is an exact description of what it ultimately boils down to.
Well, that is what hosted means. It's not what cloud means. Cloud computing doesn't mean that it is someone else's at all. You can implement your own cloud 100% on premises totally controlled by you if you want. Only hosted simply means "someone else's computer." Cloud means much more (and less.)
Your average IT person is not going to call something a local to them a cloud...I've never even heard the term "private cloud" used in circles that I run about with. We all call it Virtualization, lol. When cloud is mentioned, hosted is assumed.
All my fellow SMB buddies aren't big enough to need a locally hosted cloud infrastructure (much less AWS). That's what KVM, Xen and such are for. If they need 'cloud' it goes to AWS.
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@dafyre said in When Cloud is Not What You Signed Up For:
Your average IT person is not going to call something a local to them a cloud...I've never even heard the term "private cloud" used in circles that I run about with. We all call it Virtualization, lol. When cloud is mentioned, hosted is assumed.
That's not at all what a private cloud is. Cloud is a federally defined, very strict standard and is not related to hosting or virtualization. When cloud is mentioned in IT circles, we should be assuming cloud, not something else. IT and all of the US has a legal definition of cloud and it is not slang for hosted. In IT circles, hosted should always be used for hosted.
When people say private cloud, it doesn't imply hosted or on premises, private is about being unshared. Private vs Public, Hosted vs On Premises... these are all forms of cloud.
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@dafyre said in When Cloud is Not What You Signed Up For:
All my fellow SMB buddies aren't big enough to need a locally hosted cloud infrastructure (much less AWS). That's what KVM, Xen and such are for.
None of those do cloud computing. If you need cloud, they don't fit the bill.
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@dafyre said in When Cloud is Not What You Signed Up For:
I've never even heard the term "private cloud" used in circles that I run about with.
You are in a thread using it and in a community that uses it all the time. Maybe you've not read those threads or assumed that they meant something that they did not. But we talk about it regularly.
https://mangolassi.it/topic/12023/cloud-computing-term-matrix
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@scottalanmiller said in When Cloud is Not What You Signed Up For:
@dafyre said in When Cloud is Not What You Signed Up For:
All my fellow SMB buddies aren't big enough to need a locally hosted cloud infrastructure (much less AWS). That's what KVM, Xen and such are for.
None of those do cloud computing. If you need cloud, they don't fit the bill.
Exactly. They are virtualization platforms. I grew up hearing the term "private cloud" but it never took with me.
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@scottalanmiller said in When Cloud is Not What You Signed Up For:
@dafyre said in When Cloud is Not What You Signed Up For:
I've never even heard the term "private cloud" used in circles that I run about with.
You are in a thread using it and in a community that uses it all the time. Maybe you've not read those threads or assumed that they meant something that they did not. But we talk about it regularly.
https://mangolassi.it/topic/12023/cloud-computing-term-matrix
If I see "private cloud" I automatically think virtualization a la VMware, etc, etc. A habit I see I should break, lol.
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@dafyre said in When Cloud is Not What You Signed Up For:
@scottalanmiller said in When Cloud is Not What You Signed Up For:
@dafyre said in When Cloud is Not What You Signed Up For:
All my fellow SMB buddies aren't big enough to need a locally hosted cloud infrastructure (much less AWS). That's what KVM, Xen and such are for.
None of those do cloud computing. If you need cloud, they don't fit the bill.
Exactly. They are virtualization platforms. I grew up hearing the term "private cloud" but it never took with me.
Right. But if you need a private cloud and/or an on premises cloud, none of them are cloud. But tools like vCloud and OpenStack are.
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@dafyre said in When Cloud is Not What You Signed Up For:
If I see "private cloud" I automatically think virtualization a la VMware, etc, etc. A habit I see I should break, lol.
The thing there is that clouds have virtualization, but it isn't virtualization that is the cloud. It's a building block of it, but not the final product. So VMware or KVM are commonly used in private clouds, but aren't themselves clouds. KVM is very popular in public clouds, too.
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Scale HC3 is not a cloud, today. But it has the building blocks of one and is very, very close. In the SMB space, it's pretty much got all of the bits that people care about, so competes very closely.
Part of the confusing things about cloud computing is that most people using cloud computing, like AWS, do not use it as intended and so confuse it with VPS. That makes everything harder.
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@scottalanmiller said in When Cloud is Not What You Signed Up For:
@dafyre said in When Cloud is Not What You Signed Up For:
If I see "private cloud" I automatically think virtualization a la VMware, etc, etc. A habit I see I should break, lol.
The thing there is that clouds have virtualization, but it isn't virtualization that is the cloud. It's a building block of it, but not the final product. So VMware or KVM are commonly used in private clouds, but aren't themselves clouds. KVM is very popular in public clouds, too.
Right. I need to start thinking "openstack" when I hear private cloud and not standard virtualization. Old habits and all that.
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@dafyre said in When Cloud is Not What You Signed Up For:
@scottalanmiller said in When Cloud is Not What You Signed Up For:
@dafyre said in When Cloud is Not What You Signed Up For:
If I see "private cloud" I automatically think virtualization a la VMware, etc, etc. A habit I see I should break, lol.
The thing there is that clouds have virtualization, but it isn't virtualization that is the cloud. It's a building block of it, but not the final product. So VMware or KVM are commonly used in private clouds, but aren't themselves clouds. KVM is very popular in public clouds, too.
Right. I need to start thinking "openstack" when I hear private cloud and not standard virtualization. Old habits and all that.
AWS does private cloud, too. OpenStack doesn't really imply anything. Rackspace runs on OpenStack for public, hosted cloud. But you can use it yourself for private, on premises cloud. OpenStack is versatile and literally can be used on any axis of cloud computing... private or public, hosted or on-premises, etc.
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Basically it is private vs public (not shared vs shared)
Then hosted vs self hosted (their computes or my computers)
Then on premises or off premises (physical location)You can essentially have any one of each of those in any given deployment.
