Considering going back to school
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I have worked in IT for almost 13 years with no degree. I have worked 5 different jobs with significant jump in pay each time. I am starting to think I am getting close to maxing out my pay without a degree. There is only so high you can go on the totem pole with the technical side. I am starting to look at management and many of these jobs require a degree as part of HR screening.
We can all agree that a degree has no practical value in IT, but it is a requirement for many management type positions. My boss called me into her office and asked me if I was interested in getting a degree. I am able to get one more promotion before I run into a wall.
I told her I wasn't interested at all in going back to school. Then she showed me Western Governor's University. I know it isn't a prestigious school by any means, but they substitute classes for certifications. So when you graduate you not only have their piece of paper, but a whole slew of certs as well.
There are other people that have gone through the program here. You can obtain a bachelors in about a year if you have alot of the prerequisite certs like I do. Some of the other ones I don't have I could probably walk in and take with very little studying.
IT Security Bachelors Program
http://www.wgu.edu/online_it_degrees/information_technology_degree_securityTuition is a flat rate of approximately $3k a semester. So I could possibly get a bachelors for $6k. Apparently a couple others have done the program in one year (with a few per-requisite certs) in this organization.
I know it isn't the most prestigious degree by any means, but my question is do you think it will help with the screening process? I am mean if it is only $6k then All I need is to make $1K extra a year for 6 years to get a break even point
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@IRJ said in Considering going back to school:
I told her I wasn't interested at all in going back to school. Then she showed me Western Governor's University. I know it isn't a prestigious school by any means, but they substitute classes for certifications. So when you graduate you not only have their piece of paper, but a whole slew of certs as well.
WGU is one that I constantly warn people about. It's a blacklist "fake" school that a lot of managers will see and immediately put your resume in the dumpster and move on. It's public, but it is a public form of ITT, DeVry, etc.
http://www.smbitjournal.com/2016/12/legitimate-university-programs-are-not-certification-training/
Read that, it is specifically about WGU.
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@IRJ said in Considering going back to school:
I know it isn't the most prestigious degree by any means, but my question is do you think it will help with the screening process?
Depends on your goals. It will open doors only in the most awful companies. But it will close doors in a lot of good ones. Unlike a "real" degree from a genuine university that follows collegiate academic codes where a degree might help but certainly "won't hurt", this is a degree that could hurt you. Putting it on a resume can be seen as being dishonest.
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@IRJ I have both a Bachelor's degree and a Master's degree from Colorado Technical University in IT. The Bachelor's degree has helped me, to some extent, get into the IT workforce.
However, the Master's degree is what I have in the back pocket for Management later into the future. It has allowed me to talk Management sometimes and to come from where they are coming from as far as business priorities and agendas. I find it useful if you can get it from a reputable place for a decent price such as WGU or SNHU.
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Think of it this way... if you were in an interview and someone asked you about the value of your classes, what would you say? If you described how WGU worked to someone that wasn't themselves benefiting from it this is what they would hear: "Oh, I didn't attend classes. I simply paid money for things that are not academic to be counted as academic. So I just bought a degree."
If certs and job experience were the same as academic work, everyone with time in the field would just be handed a degree. The reality is is that academic work is supposed to be extra, and very different. Just paying to have certifications turned into a degree would be double dipping - whereas the expectation is that one is four years of academic study and the other is industry certs with no real overlap as the two are supposed to be very different things.
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I'm not convinced of the value of degrees for management. That seems as made up as the value for IT that people with degrees always push. I know lots of people in very senior management and I can tell you, I've never heard of anyone that actually got a real good management job ever being asked about a degree. If someone looks at a degree for a senior management position it's just like it is in IT... they must not think very much of the position.
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Also, for management, the degree to get is an MBA, not a Masters. A Masters would be the wrong thing to use to pivot to management.
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So you think this might actually hurt me?
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I'm thinking of getting an MBA. It would be free other then time. Although the time spent getting it may be a hamper on other income generating activities.
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I could see this degree not being helpful to get your foot in the door, but If you were looking at my resume and saw 12+ years experience and a recent degree you would see that as a negative vs 12+ years experience with no degree?
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@IRJ said in Considering going back to school:
I could see this degree not being helpful to get your foot in the door, but If you were looking at my resume and saw 12+ years experience and a recent degree you would see that as a negative vs 12+ years experience with no degree?
I think the point was, it depends on the college. There are several, often for profit, colleges that are degree mills. WGU being one of them.
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I would think the reason for a recent degree would be obvious if you look at a resume that has steady job history, experience, etc
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@coliver said in Considering going back to school:
@IRJ said in Considering going back to school:
I could see this degree not being helpful to get your foot in the door, but If you were looking at my resume and saw 12+ years experience and a recent degree you would see that as a negative vs 12+ years experience with no degree?
I think the point was, it depends on the college. There are several, often for profit, colleges that are degree mills. WGU being one of them.
Right and I understand that. There is no point getting a bachelors in a real school for me. I have no desire to go to a real school.
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@IRJ said in Considering going back to school:
So you think this might actually hurt me?
Yes, this particular school, I do. You have a career on track, you don't want to spend time and money taking on a big risk. If you want to do college, that's fine, do it at a proper school and get a valid degree that no one can question.
http://www.smbitjournal.com/2016/10/choosing-a-university-for-it-education/
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@coliver said in Considering going back to school:
I'm thinking of getting an MBA. It would be free other then time. Although the time spent getting it may be a hamper on other income generating activities.
The cost of lost opportunity.
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@IRJ said in Considering going back to school:
I could see this degree not being helpful to get your foot in the door, but If you were looking at my resume and saw 12+ years experience and a recent degree you would see that as a negative vs 12+ years experience with no degree?
I wouldn't see it at all, that's a "filter out" keyword. It's well known that the "advertise on TV" "don't do a real education" schools have been blacklisted by employers for a long time. U of Phoenix, ITT, DeVry, WGU and similar. They do far more harm than good, if you have one of those it's recommended to remove it from your resume and never mention it. Yes, they actually hurt and this has been known for a long time. Of course, the worst companies that filter IN by "has a degree" might still filter you in, but you are swinging the opposite way, not just going after "any" job, you are filtering OUT the good ones.
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@IRJ said in Considering going back to school:
I would think the reason for a recent degree would be obvious if you look at a resume that has steady job history, experience, etc
What's the point of "recent?"
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@IRJ said in Considering going back to school:
@coliver said in Considering going back to school:
@IRJ said in Considering going back to school:
I could see this degree not being helpful to get your foot in the door, but If you were looking at my resume and saw 12+ years experience and a recent degree you would see that as a negative vs 12+ years experience with no degree?
I think the point was, it depends on the college. There are several, often for profit, colleges that are degree mills. WGU being one of them.
Right and I understand that. There is no point getting a bachelors in a real school for me. I have no desire to go to a real school.
Then you have no interest in a degree, it's that simple. There is no legitimate shortcut to going to school for a degree. If you don't do the work of a degree, that means you didn't earn a degree so anything that "lets" you say you have a degree on a resume is seen as dishonest. And if you had real skills and value, why would you feel the need to do that? So think about how an employer would see it - it makes no sense to them.
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@scottalanmiller said in Considering going back to school:
@IRJ said in Considering going back to school:
@coliver said in Considering going back to school:
@IRJ said in Considering going back to school:
I could see this degree not being helpful to get your foot in the door, but If you were looking at my resume and saw 12+ years experience and a recent degree you would see that as a negative vs 12+ years experience with no degree?
I think the point was, it depends on the college. There are several, often for profit, colleges that are degree mills. WGU being one of them.
Right and I understand that. There is no point getting a bachelors in a real school for me. I have no desire to go to a real school.
Then you have no interest in a degree, it's that simple. There is no legitimate shortcut to going to school for a degree. If you don't do the work of a degree, that means you didn't earn a degree so anything that "lets" you say you have a degree on a resume is seen as dishonest. And if you had real skills and value, why would you feel the need to do that? So think about how an employer would see it - it makes no sense to them.
I don't see how getting a real college degree in Computer Science will be beneficial in any way if you plan on pursuing a career in IT. Sure, you'll be able to code your own custom accounting application from scratch or design your own functional calculator program... but you'll be knowledgeless or useless as far as managing servers or IT systems engineering/administration is concerned. I suppose a B.S. in biology or aviation would be just as useful for an IT sys admin.
But I suppose that's where experience and certifications come in... with the B.S. or M.S. in aviation as proof that you can stick to something random to better yourself and get things done, thus making a better Sys Admin than someone who hasn't done that.
Is that basically the gist of it?
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@IRJ said in Considering going back to school:
@coliver said in Considering going back to school:
@IRJ said in Considering going back to school:
I could see this degree not being helpful to get your foot in the door, but If you were looking at my resume and saw 12+ years experience and a recent degree you would see that as a negative vs 12+ years experience with no degree?
I think the point was, it depends on the college. There are several, often for profit, colleges that are degree mills. WGU being one of them.
Right and I understand that. There is no point getting a bachelors in a real school for me. I have no desire to go to a real school.
It's actually hard to prove accreditation. I researched WGU and even though I have a friend that has a degree from there I still cannot guarantee that they will accredited throughout me going there. You will run into this in any of the online schools sadly. If you aren't willing to go to a college I just wouldn't do it in general.
