Converting to a virtual environment
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@coliver said in Converting to a virtual environment:
@PRPL said in Converting to a virtual environment:
@KOOLER said in Converting to a virtual environment:
@dafyre said in Converting to a virtual environment:
Their Endoint Recovery Free would work for backups in this scenario as well. And with that one, you do get file-level restores.
Unfortunately, it'd have to be loaded per VM, and is Windows only at the moment (Linux version just hit beta).
They are improving greatly and we'll get releases and fully commercially supported versions soon. VERY soon
Hi,
So, before rolling-out this project, I wanted to get a confirmation from all the vendors, on how their application would perform/react in a Virtualized environment, including vSANs (such as StarWind)... None , except one vendor (Apogee PrePress), seemed to have any issues... The surprising response we received from Apogee is that they've never tested their system with vSAN, nor do they have any customer references for the same... Hence, they would not be supporting it ... Major bummer !! :slight_frown:
Also, how are databases affected, when stored on a vSAN ?
How does that make sense. To the application the server is no different then a physical box. Literally the application can't tell the difference between a VM and a physical machine.
vSAN is just block storage. It is presented no differently then iSCSI or Fibrechannel.
Some vendors still stick to specific requirements, like RAID levels and such. I guess they never faced a vSAN before.
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@PRPL said in Converting to a virtual environment:
@KOOLER said in Converting to a virtual environment:
@dafyre said in Converting to a virtual environment:
Their Endoint Recovery Free would work for backups in this scenario as well. And with that one, you do get file-level restores.
Unfortunately, it'd have to be loaded per VM, and is Windows only at the moment (Linux version just hit beta).
They are improving greatly and we'll get releases and fully commercially supported versions soon. VERY soon
Hi,
So, before rolling-out this project, I wanted to get a confirmation from all the vendors, on how their application would perform/react in a Virtualized environment, including vSANs (such as StarWind)... None , except one vendor (Apogee PrePress), seemed to have any issues... The surprising response we received from Apogee is that they've never tested their system with vSAN, nor do they have any customer references for the same... Hence, they would not be supporting it ... Major bummer !! :slight_frown:
Also, how are databases affected, when stored on a vSAN ?
Basically like a local RAID set. Reads in StarWind vSAN are local to the host. The most important part here: Reads do not need to travel over your NIC to get data from a NAS, so latency is much, much better.
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@PRPL said in Converting to a virtual environment:
@KOOLER said in Converting to a virtual environment:
@dafyre said in Converting to a virtual environment:
Their Endoint Recovery Free would work for backups in this scenario as well. And with that one, you do get file-level restores.
Unfortunately, it'd have to be loaded per VM, and is Windows only at the moment (Linux version just hit beta).
They are improving greatly and we'll get releases and fully commercially supported versions soon. VERY soon
Hi,
So, before rolling-out this project, I wanted to get a confirmation from all the vendors, on how their application would perform/react in a Virtualized environment, including vSANs (such as StarWind)... None , except one vendor (Apogee PrePress), seemed to have any issues... The surprising response we received from Apogee is that they've never tested their system with vSAN, nor do they have any customer references for the same... Hence, they would not be supporting it ... Major bummer !! :slight_frown:
Also, how are databases affected, when stored on a vSAN ?
I agree with @coliver. If they insist on dictating the hardware platform, they can **** well provide an appliance or go jump off a very tall bridge.
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@coliver said
vSAN is just block storage. It is presented no differently then iSCSI or Fibrechannel.
Yes but they read one of SAMs posts about of context and now anything with SAN in it is bad.
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@PRPL said in Converting to a virtual environment:
Also, how are databases affected, when stored on a vSAN ?
Nothing is affected by vSAN. Block storage is block storage, it's all the same.
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@PRPL said in Converting to a virtual environment:
The surprising response we received from Apogee is that they've never tested their system with vSAN, nor do they have any customer references for the same... Hence, they would not be supporting it ... Major bummer !!
One of the benefits to someone like Starwind using vSAN instead of something else is that you just remove the "v" because a vSAN is ever bit as much of a SAN as something that doesn't have the "v" in front of it. VSAN is a made up name and doesn't mean anything. Tell them it's connected to a SAN, it's just a high availability SAN with replication - and any enterprise SAN is. So if they don't support SAN, what kind of small customers do they have?
It's all how you present it. Their response to you should have made you respond with "you don't support SAN at all?"
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@PRPL said in Converting to a virtual environment:
None , except one vendor (Apogee PrePress), seemed to have any issues...
This is a red flag about the vendor. This implies that they don't have even basically competent IT staff. So how are they supporting their product at the best of times? I'd be worried that they are not a viable company or that the product has been abandoned internally and they are charging you for something that they cannot support. Is there a reason that this vendor is being used?
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@scottalanmiller said in Converting to a virtual environment:
@PRPL said in Converting to a virtual environment:
None , except one vendor (Apogee PrePress), seemed to have any issues...
This is a red flag about the vendor. This implies that they don't have even basically competent IT staff. So how are they supporting their product at the best of times? I'd be worried that they are not a viable company or that the product has been abandoned internally and they are charging you for something that they cannot support. Is there a reason that this vendor is being used?
This, to me, sounds like the vendor is going to do nothing but point fingers and change their mind about supported scenarios every step of the way.
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@coliver said in Converting to a virtual environment:
@scottalanmiller said in Converting to a virtual environment:
@PRPL said in Converting to a virtual environment:
None , except one vendor (Apogee PrePress), seemed to have any issues...
This is a red flag about the vendor. This implies that they don't have even basically competent IT staff. So how are they supporting their product at the best of times? I'd be worried that they are not a viable company or that the product has been abandoned internally and they are charging you for something that they cannot support. Is there a reason that this vendor is being used?
This, to me, sounds like the vendor is going to do nothing but point fingers and change their mind about supported scenarios every step of the way.
Exactly. This is a sign that the vendor is not on your side and you should be concerned about how this process is going to go.
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This is precisely what we were discussing in the "Starting own IT consultancy .." thread ...
This kind of crap happens all the time ..
I recollect an instance, when a vendor went as far as to insist that the compute-name of the Server be a specific one (I think it was the name of their product), or ELSE, the application would not work properly .... Luckily, this was one of the rare occasions when the client backed us, instead of the vendor... I put my sparring gloves on, and TKO'ed the vendor.
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@Veet said in Converting to a virtual environment:
This is precisely what we were discussing in the "Starting own IT consultancy .." thread ...
This kind of crap happens all the time ..
I recollect an instance, when a vendor went as far as to insist that the compute-name of the Server be a specific one (I think it was the name of their product), or ELSE, the application would not work properly .... Luckily, this was one of the rare occasions when the client backed us, instead of the vendor... I put my sparring gloves on, and TKO'ed the vendor.
Wow, just... wow. I wonder if anyone thought to ask if it was the hostname or a DNS entry or the NetBIOS name
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@scottalanmiller said in Converting to a virtual environment:
@Veet said in Converting to a virtual environment:
This is precisely what we were discussing in the "Starting own IT consultancy .." thread ...
This kind of crap happens all the time ..
I recollect an instance, when a vendor went as far as to insist that the compute-name of the Server be a specific one (I think it was the name of their product), or ELSE, the application would not work properly .... Luckily, this was one of the rare occasions when the client backed us, instead of the vendor... I put my sparring gloves on, and TKO'ed the vendor.
Wow, just... wow. I wonder if anyone thought to ask if it was the hostname or a DNS entry or the NetBIOS name
I'll explain ...
The client side of the application, obviously needed to be pointed to the server via the hostname of the server ...Once it so happened that we installed a new desktop, and could could not connect to the product's tech support, to have them install the client app... So, we went ahead and installed it .. Upon starting-up the app, we were confronted with a "Server not found error" ... Upon digging around a bit, we discovered that the installation folder contained an ".ini" file, with the hostname of the server, and database path, predefined ... Stupid app design ... stupider tech support ...
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@Veet my ears are bleeding now
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@scottalanmiller said in Converting to a virtual environment:
@Veet my ears are bleeding now
oops, I didn't mean to sound like I'm griping incessantly .. sorry ... no more vendor bashing..
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@Veet said in Converting to a virtual environment:
@scottalanmiller said in Converting to a virtual environment:
@Veet my ears are bleeding now
oops, I didn't mean to sound like I'm griping incessantly .. sorry ... no more vendor bashing..
Vendor bashing is the whole point of IT folks getting together!
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@scottalanmiller said in Converting to a virtual environment:
@Veet said in Converting to a virtual environment:
@scottalanmiller said in Converting to a virtual environment:
@Veet my ears are bleeding now
oops, I didn't mean to sound like I'm griping incessantly .. sorry ... no more vendor bashing..
Vendor bashing is the whole point of IT folks getting together!
Except for the (relatively) few vendors that we actually like and enjoy hanging out with!
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@dafyre said in Converting to a virtual environment:
@scottalanmiller said in Converting to a virtual environment:
@Veet said in Converting to a virtual environment:
@scottalanmiller said in Converting to a virtual environment:
@Veet my ears are bleeding now
oops, I didn't mean to sound like I'm griping incessantly .. sorry ... no more vendor bashing..
Vendor bashing is the whole point of IT folks getting together!
Except for the (relatively) few vendors that we actually like and enjoy hanging out with!
Like the ones that join ML!
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@Veet said in Converting to a virtual environment:
@scottalanmiller said in Converting to a virtual environment:
@Veet said in Converting to a virtual environment:
This is precisely what we were discussing in the "Starting own IT consultancy .." thread ...
This kind of crap happens all the time ..
I recollect an instance, when a vendor went as far as to insist that the compute-name of the Server be a specific one (I think it was the name of their product), or ELSE, the application would not work properly .... Luckily, this was one of the rare occasions when the client backed us, instead of the vendor... I put my sparring gloves on, and TKO'ed the vendor.
Wow, just... wow. I wonder if anyone thought to ask if it was the hostname or a DNS entry or the NetBIOS name
I'll explain ...
The client side of the application, obviously needed to be pointed to the server via the hostname of the server ...Once it so happened that we installed a new desktop, and could could not connect to the product's tech support, to have them install the client app... So, we went ahead and installed it .. Upon starting-up the app, we were confronted with a "Server not found error" ... Upon digging around a bit, we discovered that the installation folder contained an ".ini" file, with the hostname of the server, and database path, predefined ... Stupid app design ... stupider tech support ...
I can sympathize. The one place I did work for had an ERP that was written in FoxPro and it had a hard coded path to V:. If you mapped the drive under any other letter it wouldn't work. And since it was FoxPro it used DBF tables in that mapped directory. Awesome design.
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@stacksofplates said in Converting to a virtual environment:
@Veet said in Converting to a virtual environment:
@scottalanmiller said in Converting to a virtual environment:
@Veet said in Converting to a virtual environment:
This is precisely what we were discussing in the "Starting own IT consultancy .." thread ...
This kind of crap happens all the time ..
I recollect an instance, when a vendor went as far as to insist that the compute-name of the Server be a specific one (I think it was the name of their product), or ELSE, the application would not work properly .... Luckily, this was one of the rare occasions when the client backed us, instead of the vendor... I put my sparring gloves on, and TKO'ed the vendor.
Wow, just... wow. I wonder if anyone thought to ask if it was the hostname or a DNS entry or the NetBIOS name
I'll explain ...
The client side of the application, obviously needed to be pointed to the server via the hostname of the server ...Once it so happened that we installed a new desktop, and could could not connect to the product's tech support, to have them install the client app... So, we went ahead and installed it .. Upon starting-up the app, we were confronted with a "Server not found error" ... Upon digging around a bit, we discovered that the installation folder contained an ".ini" file, with the hostname of the server, and database path, predefined ... Stupid app design ... stupider tech support ...
I can sympathize. The one place I did work for had an ERP that was written in FoxPro and it had a hard coded path to V:. If you mapped the drive under any other letter it wouldn't work. And since it was FoxPro it used DBF tables in that mapped directory. Awesome design.
Which part is the bad part... FoxPro, Locked to specific drive.....
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@scottalanmiller said in Converting to a virtual environment:
@stacksofplates said in Converting to a virtual environment:
@Veet said in Converting to a virtual environment:
@scottalanmiller said in Converting to a virtual environment:
@Veet said in Converting to a virtual environment:
This is precisely what we were discussing in the "Starting own IT consultancy .." thread ...
This kind of crap happens all the time ..
I recollect an instance, when a vendor went as far as to insist that the compute-name of the Server be a specific one (I think it was the name of their product), or ELSE, the application would not work properly .... Luckily, this was one of the rare occasions when the client backed us, instead of the vendor... I put my sparring gloves on, and TKO'ed the vendor.
Wow, just... wow. I wonder if anyone thought to ask if it was the hostname or a DNS entry or the NetBIOS name
I'll explain ...
The client side of the application, obviously needed to be pointed to the server via the hostname of the server ...Once it so happened that we installed a new desktop, and could could not connect to the product's tech support, to have them install the client app... So, we went ahead and installed it .. Upon starting-up the app, we were confronted with a "Server not found error" ... Upon digging around a bit, we discovered that the installation folder contained an ".ini" file, with the hostname of the server, and database path, predefined ... Stupid app design ... stupider tech support ...
I can sympathize. The one place I did work for had an ERP that was written in FoxPro and it had a hard coded path to V:. If you mapped the drive under any other letter it wouldn't work. And since it was FoxPro it used DBF tables in that mapped directory. Awesome design.
Which part is the bad part... FoxPro, Locked to specific drive.....
Ha all of it. Just bad period. I showed the owner how without admin credentials to the system I could open the dbf table and edit anything I wanted. Change people's hours, prices, PAY SCALES, etc. He was shocked, but not enough to switch immediately. After a long time they finally ended up looking at Epicor
