Migrating Windows 2003 to 2012 (VM)
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Of course now JB is going to come in here and blast me for saying shit about Hyper-V, but I don't care, that fact that you have to jump around to multiple tools to get the job done compared to a single application for the other two (never tried KVM) just makes it a non starter for me.
The only thing that makes it usable for me at all if familiarity of Windows, so while I dislike the multiple MMCs, I do fully understand it and can support it, where I'm still learning a LOT for XS.
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@Dashrender said in Migrating Windows 2003 to 2012 (VM):
He said when they have a hardware refresh, which I assumed to not be now. But if it is now, then definitely go Hyper-V or XS.
As for the GUI's all being the same - seriously? Have you used Hyper-V? Damn that things a cluster to manage as a hypervisor compared to ESXi or XS (with XenCenter or XenOrchestra). You have to manage it like you mange Windows - Hyper-V stuff in this MMC, Disk management in that MMC, etc, etc. That killed my desire to use Hyper-V right there. I used ESXi for 5 years before looking at Hyper-V, the single pain of glass for EVERY function in ESXi was fantastic.
I use ESXi now, I've managed Hyper-V for two years in the past, and I run XenServer in my personal lab. 90% of all tasks can be done through the Hyper-V manager plugin. You obviously haven't managed Hyper-V in production because you don't have to jump to multiple tools... the only one I can think of is NIC bonding which needs to be done either with Powershell or Server Manager.
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@coliver said in Migrating Windows 2003 to 2012 (VM):
@Dashrender said in Migrating Windows 2003 to 2012 (VM):
He said when they have a hardware refresh, which I assumed to not be now. But if it is now, then definitely go Hyper-V or XS.
As for the GUI's all being the same - seriously? Have you used Hyper-V? Damn that things a cluster to manage as a hypervisor compared to ESXi or XS (with XenCenter or XenOrchestra). You have to manage it like you mange Windows - Hyper-V stuff in this MMC, Disk management in that MMC, etc, etc. That killed my desire to use Hyper-V right there. I used ESXi for 5 years before looking at Hyper-V, the single pain of glass for EVERY function in ESXi was fantastic.
I use ESXi now, I've managed Hyper-V for two years in the past, and I run XenServer in my personal lab. 90% of all tasks can be done through the Hyper-V manager plugin. You obviously haven't managed Hyper-V in production because you don't have to jump to multiple tools... the only one I can think of is NIC bonding which needs to be done either with Powershell or Server Manager.
Are you running XenServer at home just to have experience with more stuff?
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@wirestyle22 said in Migrating Windows 2003 to 2012 (VM):
@coliver said in Migrating Windows 2003 to 2012 (VM):
@Dashrender said in Migrating Windows 2003 to 2012 (VM):
He said when they have a hardware refresh, which I assumed to not be now. But if it is now, then definitely go Hyper-V or XS.
As for the GUI's all being the same - seriously? Have you used Hyper-V? Damn that things a cluster to manage as a hypervisor compared to ESXi or XS (with XenCenter or XenOrchestra). You have to manage it like you mange Windows - Hyper-V stuff in this MMC, Disk management in that MMC, etc, etc. That killed my desire to use Hyper-V right there. I used ESXi for 5 years before looking at Hyper-V, the single pain of glass for EVERY function in ESXi was fantastic.
I use ESXi now, I've managed Hyper-V for two years in the past, and I run XenServer in my personal lab. 90% of all tasks can be done through the Hyper-V manager plugin. You obviously haven't managed Hyper-V in production because you don't have to jump to multiple tools... the only one I can think of is NIC bonding which needs to be done either with Powershell or Server Manager.
Are you running XenServer at home just to have experience with more stuff?
Yes, that and I've been running it at home since 2010. I need to update to XenServer 7 soon but I've been short on time for a few months now. It's the same reason I only run Linux at home, well at least for servers.
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@coliver said in Migrating Windows 2003 to 2012 (VM):
@Dashrender said in Migrating Windows 2003 to 2012 (VM):
He said when they have a hardware refresh, which I assumed to not be now. But if it is now, then definitely go Hyper-V or XS.
As for the GUI's all being the same - seriously? Have you used Hyper-V? Damn that things a cluster to manage as a hypervisor compared to ESXi or XS (with XenCenter or XenOrchestra). You have to manage it like you mange Windows - Hyper-V stuff in this MMC, Disk management in that MMC, etc, etc. That killed my desire to use Hyper-V right there. I used ESXi for 5 years before looking at Hyper-V, the single pain of glass for EVERY function in ESXi was fantastic.
I use ESXi now, I've managed Hyper-V for two years in the past, and I run XenServer in my personal lab. 90% of all tasks can be done through the Hyper-V manager plugin. You obviously haven't managed Hyper-V in production because you don't have to jump to multiple tools... the only one I can think of is NIC bonding which needs to be done either with Powershell or Server Manager.
I had a 2012 Hyper-V setup around 6 months ago. I couldn't manage the disk through Hyper-V manager, unless I was missing something.
But you make my point for me, the NICs have to be down elsewhere - how about the vSwitches? are those in the Hyper-V MMC? I didn't even get that far before bailing to XS.
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@Dashrender said in Migrating Windows 2003 to 2012 (VM):
@coliver said in Migrating Windows 2003 to 2012 (VM):
@Dashrender said in Migrating Windows 2003 to 2012 (VM):
He said when they have a hardware refresh, which I assumed to not be now. But if it is now, then definitely go Hyper-V or XS.
As for the GUI's all being the same - seriously? Have you used Hyper-V? Damn that things a cluster to manage as a hypervisor compared to ESXi or XS (with XenCenter or XenOrchestra). You have to manage it like you mange Windows - Hyper-V stuff in this MMC, Disk management in that MMC, etc, etc. That killed my desire to use Hyper-V right there. I used ESXi for 5 years before looking at Hyper-V, the single pain of glass for EVERY function in ESXi was fantastic.
I use ESXi now, I've managed Hyper-V for two years in the past, and I run XenServer in my personal lab. 90% of all tasks can be done through the Hyper-V manager plugin. You obviously haven't managed Hyper-V in production because you don't have to jump to multiple tools... the only one I can think of is NIC bonding which needs to be done either with Powershell or Server Manager.
I had a 2012 Hyper-V setup around 6 months ago. I couldn't manage the disk through Hyper-V manager, unless I was missing something.
But you make my point for me, the NICs have to be down elsewhere - how about the vSwitches? are those in the Hyper-V MMC? I didn't even get that far before bailing to XS.
Yes, vSwitches are done in the Hyper-V manager. Disk management, you're right, is done through a different snap-in. So your point is that for host level tasks you need to use host level tools? I see your point but disagree that it is an issue.
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@coliver said in Migrating Windows 2003 to 2012 (VM):
@Dashrender said in Migrating Windows 2003 to 2012 (VM):
@coliver said in Migrating Windows 2003 to 2012 (VM):
@Dashrender said in Migrating Windows 2003 to 2012 (VM):
He said when they have a hardware refresh, which I assumed to not be now. But if it is now, then definitely go Hyper-V or XS.
As for the GUI's all being the same - seriously? Have you used Hyper-V? Damn that things a cluster to manage as a hypervisor compared to ESXi or XS (with XenCenter or XenOrchestra). You have to manage it like you mange Windows - Hyper-V stuff in this MMC, Disk management in that MMC, etc, etc. That killed my desire to use Hyper-V right there. I used ESXi for 5 years before looking at Hyper-V, the single pain of glass for EVERY function in ESXi was fantastic.
I use ESXi now, I've managed Hyper-V for two years in the past, and I run XenServer in my personal lab. 90% of all tasks can be done through the Hyper-V manager plugin. You obviously haven't managed Hyper-V in production because you don't have to jump to multiple tools... the only one I can think of is NIC bonding which needs to be done either with Powershell or Server Manager.
I had a 2012 Hyper-V setup around 6 months ago. I couldn't manage the disk through Hyper-V manager, unless I was missing something.
But you make my point for me, the NICs have to be down elsewhere - how about the vSwitches? are those in the Hyper-V MMC? I didn't even get that far before bailing to XS.
Yes, vSwitches are done in the Hyper-V manager. Disk management, you're right, is done through a different snap-in. So your point is that for host level tasks you need to use host level tools? I see your point but disagree that it is an issue.
Exactly, host level require breaking out to host level tools - ESXi and XS don't require this, Hyper-V server (that is the hypervisor only) should have a single pane of glass to manage the whole thing, and perhaps it does, with the paid MS tools, but then it falls below what the others offer for free, but gains the backup API that ESXi Free looses, so trade offs I guess.
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@Dashrender said in Migrating Windows 2003 to 2012 (VM):
@coliver said in Migrating Windows 2003 to 2012 (VM):
@Dashrender said in Migrating Windows 2003 to 2012 (VM):
@coliver said in Migrating Windows 2003 to 2012 (VM):
@Dashrender said in Migrating Windows 2003 to 2012 (VM):
He said when they have a hardware refresh, which I assumed to not be now. But if it is now, then definitely go Hyper-V or XS.
As for the GUI's all being the same - seriously? Have you used Hyper-V? Damn that things a cluster to manage as a hypervisor compared to ESXi or XS (with XenCenter or XenOrchestra). You have to manage it like you mange Windows - Hyper-V stuff in this MMC, Disk management in that MMC, etc, etc. That killed my desire to use Hyper-V right there. I used ESXi for 5 years before looking at Hyper-V, the single pain of glass for EVERY function in ESXi was fantastic.
I use ESXi now, I've managed Hyper-V for two years in the past, and I run XenServer in my personal lab. 90% of all tasks can be done through the Hyper-V manager plugin. You obviously haven't managed Hyper-V in production because you don't have to jump to multiple tools... the only one I can think of is NIC bonding which needs to be done either with Powershell or Server Manager.
I had a 2012 Hyper-V setup around 6 months ago. I couldn't manage the disk through Hyper-V manager, unless I was missing something.
But you make my point for me, the NICs have to be down elsewhere - how about the vSwitches? are those in the Hyper-V MMC? I didn't even get that far before bailing to XS.
Yes, vSwitches are done in the Hyper-V manager. Disk management, you're right, is done through a different snap-in. So your point is that for host level tasks you need to use host level tools? I see your point but disagree that it is an issue.
Exactly, host level require breaking out to host level tools - ESXi and XS don't require this, Hyper-V server (that is the hypervisor only) should have a single pane of glass to manage the whole thing, and perhaps it does, with the paid MS tools, but then it falls below what the others offer for free, but gains the backup API that ESXi Free looses, so trade offs I guess.
I guess.... still not sure where this is an issue especially if you are used to managing Windows boxes. Single pane of glass is nice sure... but the feature/price options available make Hyper-V very competitive. Granted in a green field scenario I would probably deploy XenServer with Xen Orchestra before Hyper-V.
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I am going to be doing the same thing here, but at the suggestion of a majority of ML users am waiting for 2016 to come out.
Waiting....waiting...waiting...
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@BRRABill said in Migrating Windows 2003 to 2012 (VM):
I am going to be doing the same thing here, but at the suggestion of a majority of ML users am waiting for 2016 to come out.
Waiting....waiting...waiting...
that's mainly if you are buing new licenses, or you don't want to do two migrations so close together.
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@Dashrender said
that's mainly if you are buing new licenses, or you don't want to do two migrations so close together.
@wirestyle22 do you already have the licenses for 2012?
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@BRRABill said in Migrating Windows 2003 to 2012 (VM):
@Dashrender said
that's mainly if you are buing new licenses, or you don't want to do two migrations so close together.
@wirestyle22 do you already have the licenses for 2012?
If not, either wait or buy software assurance now so you can upgrade after 2016 comes out.
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@Dashrender said in Migrating Windows 2003 to 2012 (VM):
Of course now JB is going to come in here and blast me for saying shit about Hyper-V, but I don't care, that fact that you have to jump around to multiple tools to get the job done compared to a single application for the other two (never tried KVM) just makes it a non starter for me.
The only thing that makes it usable for me at all if familiarity of Windows, so while I dislike the multiple MMCs, I do fully understand it and can support it, where I'm still learning a LOT for XS.
You do not manage XS with a single GUI from withing XS either. You use an add on product. You can get add on products for Hyper-V also.
I only bash you for saying false things.
