How do you find the right employer?
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@scottalanmiller said:
So my biggest piece of advice here is....
You always keep looking. Part of finding the right job is not settling for one that isn't the right one. Just like when dating you put your "Mrs. Right" as risk because you are busy dating "Ms. Right Now", even after you know that you are not long term compatible and you are not right for each other, I think that too many people settle for the job that they have, stop looking, stop working to make themselves more marketable, stop keeping their name out there and give up almost every chance that they have of making the connection.
Whether dating or job hunting, the chances of finding the right person or job for you is slim, you have to work hard to make sure that you are not taking away the chances that you have. You don't sit at home every Saturday night and hide and then wonder why you never meet any one. Likewise, you can't stop job hunting and wonder why the right job didn't come along.
Is that the answer? No. Finding the right job is very hard. But it is part of the answer. Finding the right job takes work and you can't settle. Your career is too short and the moment that you stop looking for the right job is the moment you stopping having any chance of finding it.
How do I diversify myself enough to make myself the right person for a good amount of jobs. Jack of all trades running domains, exchange, file servers, VM's, Managed Switches, etc?
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@wirestyle22 said:
@scottalanmiller said:
So my biggest piece of advice here is....
You always keep looking. Part of finding the right job is not settling for one that isn't the right one. Just like when dating you put your "Mrs. Right" as risk because you are busy dating "Ms. Right Now", even after you know that you are not long term compatible and you are not right for each other, I think that too many people settle for the job that they have, stop looking, stop working to make themselves more marketable, stop keeping their name out there and give up almost every chance that they have of making the connection.
Whether dating or job hunting, the chances of finding the right person or job for you is slim, you have to work hard to make sure that you are not taking away the chances that you have. You don't sit at home every Saturday night and hide and then wonder why you never meet any one. Likewise, you can't stop job hunting and wonder why the right job didn't come along.
Is that the answer? No. Finding the right job is very hard. But it is part of the answer. Finding the right job takes work and you can't settle. Your career is too short and the moment that you stop looking for the right job is the moment you stopping having any chance of finding it.
How do I diversify myself enough to make myself the right person for a good amount of jobs. Jack of all trades running exchange, file servers, VM's, Managed Switches, etc?
Yeah - I'm in the same boat - I kinda feel that most people here are ML are in that same boat -though some might be a bit more skilled at one thing or the other that they have manged here or there.
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Whoever said "on sites like this" has a good idea. @NTG has been hiring from communities of well matched people for a very long time. We haven't solicited resumes in, well, forever. I'm not sure we ever did. How we hire has changed over the years, but the basics are the same - we don't hire through random resumes and anonymous connections. We work with people that make sense. And vice versa. People who apply to work or ask to work or excited to work with NTG aren't excited because "it's a job", which is what most companies get, we get people who are excited because they already know their coworkers, already know their boss(es), already know the kind of work that we do, where we are based and what the culture is like. They've probably been out drinking with us. They've probably seen the offices, met in person, had dinner. They've probably been in contact for years.
By the time we are actually hiring the relationship is in place. Sure, it doesn't always match correctly. Sometimes it is the working from home that catches people off guard. Sometimes it is the hours. Sometimes the MSP lifestyle just isn't right or whatever. But the chances of success are so much higher and the opportunity to find people who are coming in for "forever" is easily 1,000% that of a normal company. Any typically people who stay past the the year mark or so... we know that they are likely to retire from here. Several have.
It's a much harder process for hiring on both sides, but the results are very different, too.
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The way the market is going, is jack of all trades "career safe" any more with a single company?
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@Dashrender said:
@wirestyle22 said:
@scottalanmiller said:
So my biggest piece of advice here is....
You always keep looking. Part of finding the right job is not settling for one that isn't the right one. Just like when dating you put your "Mrs. Right" as risk because you are busy dating "Ms. Right Now", even after you know that you are not long term compatible and you are not right for each other, I think that too many people settle for the job that they have, stop looking, stop working to make themselves more marketable, stop keeping their name out there and give up almost every chance that they have of making the connection.
Whether dating or job hunting, the chances of finding the right person or job for you is slim, you have to work hard to make sure that you are not taking away the chances that you have. You don't sit at home every Saturday night and hide and then wonder why you never meet any one. Likewise, you can't stop job hunting and wonder why the right job didn't come along.
Is that the answer? No. Finding the right job is very hard. But it is part of the answer. Finding the right job takes work and you can't settle. Your career is too short and the moment that you stop looking for the right job is the moment you stopping having any chance of finding it.
How do I diversify myself enough to make myself the right person for a good amount of jobs. Jack of all trades running exchange, file servers, VM's, Managed Switches, etc?
Yeah - I'm in the same boat - I kinda feel that most people here are ML are in that same boat -though some might be a bit more skilled at one thing or the other that they have manged here or there.
You and SAM are clearly at a higher level than I am with most things I'm sure. Should I be studying for certs? If so which certs?
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@Breffni-Potter said:
The way the market is going, is jack of all trades "career safe" any more with a single company?
Strong base knowledge in everything I'm sure would be a boon but I can only speak of my experiences and I do not know everything--or even enough in my opinion. I'm a very detail oriented person though. I require mastery over my career and I don't feel like I'm even close.
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@wirestyle22 said:
How do I diversify myself enough to make myself the right person for a good amount of jobs. Jack of all trades running domains, exchange, file servers, VM's, Managed Switches, etc?
That's a very different discussion. But my first point would be....
Making yourself a viable candidate for "every" job is what you do when you are concerned about getting any job.
Nothing wrong with that, that's what most people do. It's approaching job hunting from the perspective of "career risk mitigation." You sacrifice success in order to avoid failure. This is how doctors work... better to not cure a cold than to accidentally kill the patient.
The other approach is...
Make yourself the perfect candidate for the right job.
This is the opposite. You give up your flexibility in exchange for being ready to take the job that will make you super happy. You are approaching from the aspect of success while taking on risk that it is harder to find a fall back "acceptable" job. This is the business approach... it's better to go out of business once or twice because true success once will offset the losses.
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@Breffni-Potter said:
The way the market is going, is jack of all trades "career safe" any more with a single company?
Yes, but it is increasingly a risky career option. I see generalists becoming rarer and rarer, especially in the SMB where they traditionally are most common, and the remaining generalists roles moving closer and closer to the CFO and CEO and needing to not only be very strong in lots of IT, but also very market connected and business aware. So the generalists get to be fewer, but the ones that remain are more and more the big budget IT leaders.
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@wirestyle22 said:
You and SAM are clearly at a higher level than I am with most things I'm sure. Should I be studying for certs? If so which certs?
All of them, of course.
Just kidding, but I have nearly 200. I've written about ten of them! I find certs a very valuable way to force yourself to learn. But from a career perspective, only a few are going to help very much, especially once you get your career moving along.
Which ones specifically really come down to your career roadmap.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Breffni-Potter said:
The way the market is going, is jack of all trades "career safe" any more with a single company?
Yes, but it is increasingly a risky career option. I see generalists becoming rarer and rarer, especially in the SMB where they traditionally are most common, and the remaining generalists roles moving closer and closer to the CFO and CEO and needing to not only be very strong in lots of IT, but also very market connected and business aware. So the generalists get to be fewer, but the ones that remain are more and more the big budget IT leaders.
Let's assume that I want to have a strong foundation running the basic foundation of a company alone and in addition to that want to specialize in VM's/Server Administration--like Domain Controllers, Exchange and SQL Databases. I think that these are the bare bones necessities of a small to mid size business typically (correct me if I'm wrong). Take the SQL Database Admin with a grain of salt because that is an entire job by itself and will most likely be a work in progress for a long time.
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@Breffni-Potter said:
@Dashrender said:
@Breffni-Potter said:
I've got some free beer tokens if you ever visit London.
Hey I'll be there this June!
Ok, meet?
I'll wave as I fly over. I'll be over London on the 17th as I fly from Instanbul to NYC.
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@wirestyle22 said:
Let's assume that I want to have a strong foundation running the basic foundation of a company alone....
All you really need is some light basics and good knowledge on hiring good IT service providers. And while that sounds tongue in cheek, I do not mean it to be. The idea of the lone IT person is a bad one. It's not a good model. That doesn't mean that those jobs will not exist and will not continue to exist, but by and large they are reserved for badly managed companies doing things poorly - not a formula for career success. Even if you get one of the better roles in one of the better companies the lone IT pro cannot be leverage effectively.
No matter how you look at that type of generalist you are either dramatically overpaid for your skill level while you do low level tasks and as the IT advisor you should be telling the company to lay you off. Or you are in over your head and not well suited to the tasks and decisions that are sometimes required of you.
It's a bad situation no matter what.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@wirestyle22 said:
Let's assume that I want to have a strong foundation running the basic foundation of a company alone....
All you really need is some light basics and good knowledge on hiring good IT service providers. And while that sounds tongue in cheek, I do not mean it to be. The idea of the lone IT person is a bad one. It's not a good model. That doesn't mean that those jobs will not exist and will not continue to exist, but by and large they are reserved for badly managed companies doing things poorly - not a formula for career success. Even if you get one of the better roles in one of the better companies the lone IT pro cannot be leverage effectively.
No matter how you look at that type of generalist you are either dramatically overpaid for your skill level while you do low level tasks and as the IT advisor you should be telling the company to lay you off. Or you are in over your head and not well suited to the tasks and decisions that are sometimes required of you.
It's a bad situation no matter what.
I understand but If I want to get out I need to put myself on a path to realize my goals and gain the knowledge to transition from baby admin. I don't know what path that is.
If you were hiring for an exchange admin what would you be looking for?
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@wirestyle22 said:
... specialize in VM's/Server Administration--like Domain Controllers, Exchange and SQL Databases. I think that these are the bare bones necessities of a small to mid size business typically (correct me if I'm wrong).
Lots of little companies running those things, and some have great reason to be, but this follows the "companies that are generally doing things poorly" comment. We could delve into the specifics of any individual company and we all know someone who needs AD, someone who needs on premises Exchange and someone who needs on premises SQL Server. But even already today, the chances are that if you are at least running Exchange on site, you are in the bottom quartile of businesses. There are special cases where on premises Exchange is absolutely the right answer, I'm not giving a blanket statement. But the majority of SMBs running Exchange are doing so because they are either just bad at IT, their IT person is doing things intentionally poorly in an attempt to technologically extort career stability from the company and/or someone is operating from an emotional position of fear and lack of understanding of IT. All bad things.
And that will just continue to get worse. As AD begins to pull back from a ubiquitous service, as being laden with SQL Server becomes less and less practical having those specific skills will more and more tie you to small, failing or at least poorly operated businesses. You can always get lucky and get a company that happens to use those and use them well, but the chances and opportunities will continue to get slimmer and slimmer.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@wirestyle22 said:
... specialize in VM's/Server Administration--like Domain Controllers, Exchange and SQL Databases. I think that these are the bare bones necessities of a small to mid size business typically (correct me if I'm wrong).
Lots of little companies running those things, and some have great reason to be, but this follows the "companies that are generally doing things poorly" comment. We could delve into the specifics of any individual company and we all know someone who needs AD, someone who needs on premises Exchange and someone who needs on premises SQL Server. But even already today, the chances are that if you are at least running Exchange on site, you are in the bottom quartile of businesses. There are special cases where on premises Exchange is absolutely the right answer, I'm not giving a blanket statement. But the majority of SMBs running Exchange are doing so because they are either just bad at IT, their IT person is doing things intentionally poorly in an attempt to technologically extort career stability from the company and/or someone is operating from an emotional position of fear and lack of understanding of IT. All bad things.
And that will just continue to get worse. As AD begins to pull back from a ubiquitous service, as being laden with SQL Server becomes less and less practical having those specific skills will more and more tie you to small, failing or at least poorly operated businesses. You can always get lucky and get a company that happens to use those and use them well, but the chances and opportunities will continue to get slimmer and slimmer.
So I should be getting Cloud certifications?
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@wirestyle22 said:
So I should be getting Cloud certifications?
Certifications are good but a good way of learning how to leverage it is to see if you can use it in your current environment.
Personally, certs don't tell me a huge amount about a candidate, too many bootcamp/shortcut options.
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Instead of thinking about specific certs or products, try to think bigger than that.
We're currently using email like this, how else could we use it?
Our data is stored as xyz, is there a better way to improve it?
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@wirestyle22 said:
If you were hiring for an exchange admin what would you be looking for?
IF I needed an Exchange Admin, I'd be looking for....
- Exchange experience, hopefully a lot of it. Almost certainly from the enterprise. Hopefully from an industry where production risk is well understood.
- Good ability to be flexible and able to move on to other skills as this one is unlikely to remain stable and I don't want to intentionally plan to hire for the short term (personal thing, not everyone is going to care about the long term viability of the relationship.)
- Lack of hubris and a good understanding of both Exchange and Office 365
- PowerShell automation skills, specifically as they apply to Exchange, but more broadly would be just fine.
- An understanding of licensing, costs and Exchange project needs.
- Certification from MS is nice, but minor. I have this, I know how little it means.
- Solid understanding of SMTP, MTA, relays, SPAM, phishing, other mail products, mail bagging, AV, etc.
- Knowledge of and understanding of DAG.
- The ability to understand and articulate the business needs and ramifications of decisions and pricing around email systems.
- Ability to interact well, efficiently and intelligently with other teams, especially the Windows Systems Administration group.
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@wirestyle22 said:
So I should be getting Cloud certifications?
Start with cloud experience. Certs are fine, but not a big deal. I know of no one who really uses certs in hiring.
Although yes, you should get some. I wrote several of the ones out there
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@scottalanmiller said:
Although yes, you should get some. I wrote several of the ones out there
Though with your time budget, if you had a choice between getting experience or getting certs.
Get the experience first.
