Joes Crab Shack Drops Tipping in America
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I like the idea, but it could cause service to get worse.
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@IRJ said:
I like the idea, but it could cause service to get worse.
Or it could make it better, too.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@IRJ said:
I like the idea, but it could cause service to get worse.
Or it could make it better, too.
It's unlikely when there is no incentive.
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@IRJ said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@IRJ said:
I like the idea, but it could cause service to get worse.
Or it could make it better, too.
It's unlikely when there is no incentive.
No realistic incentive now either. Are you saying that no one does a good job without a customer by customer "bonus" for meeting a minimum standard of quality? That would suggest that no other career would function since waiting tables is nearly unique in this regards. Even within a restaurant this would make bus boys, chefs and other critical stuff not bother since they don't get tipped, yet that is not the case.
Tipping is not guaranteed and is capricious. Doing a good job tends to get you far less money than does showing cleavage, for example. Wait staff know very well that their performance rarely translates directly into tips. It's really a myth that tipping makes for better service. In fact, if that were the case, you would expect the US being the world's tipping capital to have better service than other places but it doesn't.
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Remember that having a job, being a good person, needing to pay the bills and just taking pride in what you do make you do a good job. If you need tips to do a job well, I don't see any real chance it was going to be done well in either case.
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Scott, wheren't you the one a few weeks ago saying that Europe tipping it completely part of the setup there too?
As a recap, I was told that tipping was completely unnecessary unless you felt like you received exceptional service, and even then it was only a euro or two.
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@Dashrender said:
Scott, wheren't you the one a few weeks ago saying that Europe tipping it completely part of the setup there too?
Yes of course, everywhere tips. But nowhere tips 20%+ like the US.
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@Dashrender said:
As a recap, I was told that tipping was completely unnecessary unless you felt like you received exceptional service, and even then it was only a euro or two.
That's what people trying to excuse not tipping say, yes. It's actually a bit more. That would be like tipping 12% in the US.
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That may be, but it surely appears that Joe doesn't think tipping is where it's at and is looking to do away with it.
or are you guessing that we'll pay more for the meal, the employee will get paid more, and we'll tip 10% or whatever the 'norm' is in the rest of the world?
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But what would the impact of something like this be if it were instituted at a good restaurant? That's the only way I'd be concerned.
Either way, this reeks of a corporate move to seize some of the $$$ earned by servers, while paying them a wage that is less than what they would make getting regular tips. Even 20 years ago, I knew servers who worked in average restaurants that would be pissed if they didn't walk with the equivalent of $25/hr or more every night. $14/hr with no possibility of more (that "performance incentive is bullshit, no server at Joe's will see more than a dollar per hour increase) is insulting. I wouldn't take a server job for that small, set amount per hour. Any competent server can make far more than 14 bucks an hour, especially if they work in fine dining.
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@Dashrender said:
That may be, but it surely appears that Joe doesn't think tipping is where it's at and is looking to do away with it.
Tipping is NOT where it is at, it is a horribly ridiculous practice that makes no sense at all. Tipping implies that the customers will make arbitrary, case by case service decisions based on the performance of one person in a supply chain. It is absolutely insane. The people who truly matter, the ones making the food, we don't tip. Why do we only tip the ones that we see face to face? Idiotic. Tipping just makes everything worse. It undermines good service and makes all parties unhappy.
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@Dashrender said:
or are you guessing that we'll pay more for the meal, the employee will get paid more, and we'll tip 10% or whatever the 'norm' is in the rest of the world?
Yes, I assume that the price will go up and the cost will go down. Why would we tip 10% if there is no tipping?
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@RojoLoco said:
But what would the impact of something like this be if it were instituted at a good restaurant? That's the only way I'd be concerned.
If the people only work for tips what are the chances it would be good.
Frankly, let's have robots deliver food. What point is there to wait staff?
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@RojoLoco said:
Either way, this reeks of a corporate move to seize some of the $$$ earned by servers, while paying them a wage that is less than what they would make getting regular tips.
That would be hard to do. How could the restaurant make more money when they have to suddenly pay out so much more? Legally they have to pay at least minimum wage and for the market to work they will have to pay far, far above that.
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@RojoLoco said:
Even 20 years ago, I knew servers who worked in average restaurants that would be pissed if they didn't walk with the equivalent of $25/hr or more every night.
Even decently well off waiters rarely make that these days. And wouldn't it be nice if people making $50K a year paid taxes like the rest of us?
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@scottalanmiller said:
@RojoLoco said:
Either way, this reeks of a corporate move to seize some of the $$$ earned by servers, while paying them a wage that is less than what they would make getting regular tips.
That would be hard to do. How could the restaurant make more money when they have to suddenly pay out so much more? Legally they have to pay at least minimum wage and for the market to work they will have to pay far, far above that.
I can't provide the numbers of how, but why would they do this other than to make more money? Even if only from the "good PR move" they think this is, they are obviously expecting more revenue / more profit for the company / shareholders / whatever. Corporations only make changes when it makes them more money.
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@RojoLoco said:
$14/hr with no possibility of more (that "performance incentive is bullshit, no server at Joe's will see more than a dollar per hour increase) is insulting. I wouldn't take a server job for that small, set amount per hour. Any competent server can make far more than 14 bucks an hour, especially if they work in fine dining.
Then don't take the job. If they aren't paying a competitive wage they won't get employees. My guess is that they get better ones.
And this isn't fine dining. If it was, they'd pay more.
I've eaten at some of the best restaurants in Dallas and you know what.... 17 of the top ones (it's a high end country club chain that focuses on their dining) are tip free. Always have been. Zero tipping, amazing service.
In the real world I've seen it done, even in the US, and the tipping doesn't tie into quality of service. The highest tips I know of are in restaurants where the service is horrible and the staff are half naked. And the best I see regularly have lower tips or none.
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@RojoLoco said:
I can't provide the numbers of how, but why would they do this other than to make more money?
They don't have to make money from the staff. They can make it by having more and happier customers, lowering overhead, getting better staff, etc.
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@RojoLoco said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@RojoLoco said:
Either way, this reeks of a corporate move to seize some of the $$$ earned by servers, while paying them a wage that is less than what they would make getting regular tips.
That would be hard to do. How could the restaurant make more money when they have to suddenly pay out so much more? Legally they have to pay at least minimum wage and for the market to work they will have to pay far, far above that.
I can't provide the numbers of how, but why would they do this other than to make more money? Even if only from the "good PR move" they think this is, they are obviously expecting more revenue / more profit for the company / shareholders / whatever. Corporations only make changes when it makes them more money.
None of that suggests that they are seizing wait staff pay. The opposite, they are moving it until federal employee wage protection.
