ProjectSend
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@Dashrender said:
@dafyre said:
ownCloud can be used to securely transfer files as well. You can share a folder with a password and Link... and whoever has the password and link can view / upload / download the files in that folder.
You can share multiple folders like this to keep clients / government entities separated.
That is not good enough for HIPAA.
Are you sure? What is the HIPAA requirement?
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
@dafyre said:
ownCloud can be used to securely transfer files as well. You can share a folder with a password and Link... and whoever has the password and link can view / upload / download the files in that folder.
You can share multiple folders like this to keep clients / government entities separated.
That is not good enough for HIPAA.
Are you sure? What is the HIPAA requirement?
You have to be able to track it to a specific individual. I suppose as long as no one is sharing the password, i.e. it's only used by one person, then you kinda have that... but I don't consider it really the goal.
@dafyre doesn't mention anything about usernames.
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
@dafyre said:
ownCloud can be used to securely transfer files as well. You can share a folder with a password and Link... and whoever has the password and link can view / upload / download the files in that folder.
You can share multiple folders like this to keep clients / government entities separated.
That is not good enough for HIPAA.
Are you sure? What is the HIPAA requirement?
You have to be able to track it to a specific individual. I suppose as long as no one is sharing the password, i.e. it's only used by one person, then you kinda have that... but I don't consider it really the goal.
@dafyre doesn't mention anything about usernames.
You could easily setup username per client or whatever. Even send out links to reset/create a password. How does knowing the user's IP address give you info about who the user is? Even a username and password would be iffy in this scenario.
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Getting rid of shared accounts was one of the first huge hurtles I had to get this company to overcome. Frankly I'm still battling it daily.
People around here just don't give to flips about security. Does it make their life a bit more difficult - sure! but is it so burdensome that it causes workflow breakdowns? No. They are just lazy.
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@Dashrender said:
You have to be able to track it to a specific individual. I suppose as long as no one is sharing the password, i.e. it's only used by one person, then you kinda have that... but I don't consider it really the goal.
@dafyre doesn't mention anything about usernames.
A username and password does not track individuals anymore than just a password does. It's more secure, but only by virtue of being naturally longer. If you want you can put the username into the first part of the password field. Works the same. The idea that usernames/passwords does something that pure passwords does not is a human perception thing and matters not at all to the computer.
Username/password can be shared identically to just passwords. So anything that is allowed by username/password would be covered by just password.
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@Dashrender said:
Getting rid of shared accounts was one of the first huge hurtles I had to get this company to overcome. Frankly I'm still battling it daily.
People around here just don't give to flips about security. Does it make their life a bit more difficult - sure! but is it so burdensome that it causes workflow breakdowns? No. They are just lazy.
Using "just" a password might encourage people to use it incorrectly, but it doesn't change it at a technical level.
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
@dafyre said:
ownCloud can be used to securely transfer files as well. You can share a folder with a password and Link... and whoever has the password and link can view / upload / download the files in that folder.
You can share multiple folders like this to keep clients / government entities separated.
That is not good enough for HIPAA.
Are you sure? What is the HIPAA requirement?
You have to be able to track it to a specific individual. I suppose as long as no one is sharing the password, i.e. it's only used by one person, then you kinda have that... but I don't consider it really the goal.
@dafyre doesn't mention anything about usernames.
No, I didn't. I thought we were talking simple file sharing. ownCloud does allow you to share files among users as well though. it can run using its own stand-alone user database or run using LDAP / AD for the User database.
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Of course you're right @scottalanmiller, as long as you can show that a specific password was used to access said files. If you can't, well then you haven't identified the user.
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@coliver said:
@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
@dafyre said:
ownCloud can be used to securely transfer files as well. You can share a folder with a password and Link... and whoever has the password and link can view / upload / download the files in that folder.
You can share multiple folders like this to keep clients / government entities separated.
That is not good enough for HIPAA.
Are you sure? What is the HIPAA requirement?
You have to be able to track it to a specific individual. I suppose as long as no one is sharing the password, i.e. it's only used by one person, then you kinda have that... but I don't consider it really the goal.
@dafyre doesn't mention anything about usernames.
You could easily setup username per client or whatever. Even send out links to reset/create a password. How does knowing the user's IP address give you info about who the user is? Even a username and password would be iffy in this scenario.
While tracking IPs isn't specifically required, it's generally used as part of the verification that a user accessing a system is not accessing it from someplace they shouldn't be accessing it. For example, If a user is in Texas, and the IP they are logging in from is from Japan, someone should be looking into why that user's account was used from a Japanese IP.
Users under the law are able to be held accountable for things accessed with their credentials. I'm sure this is to incentivize the user to maintain control over their account.
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@Dashrender said:
@coliver said:
@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
@dafyre said:
ownCloud can be used to securely transfer files as well. You can share a folder with a password and Link... and whoever has the password and link can view / upload / download the files in that folder.
You can share multiple folders like this to keep clients / government entities separated.
That is not good enough for HIPAA.
Are you sure? What is the HIPAA requirement?
You have to be able to track it to a specific individual. I suppose as long as no one is sharing the password, i.e. it's only used by one person, then you kinda have that... but I don't consider it really the goal.
@dafyre doesn't mention anything about usernames.
You could easily setup username per client or whatever. Even send out links to reset/create a password. How does knowing the user's IP address give you info about who the user is? Even a username and password would be iffy in this scenario.
While tracking IPs isn't specifically required, it's generally used as part of the verification that a user accessing a system is not accessing it from someplace they shouldn't be accessing it. For example, If a user is in Texas, and the IP they are logging in from is from Japan, someone should be looking into why that user's account was used from a Japanese IP.
Users under the law are able to be held accountable for things accessed with their credentials. I'm sure this is to incentivize the user to maintain control over their account.
So if the user is liable for their own account why are you tracking IP addresses? You just said after you give them the information you are no longer responsible for how they access it.
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@Dashrender said:
Of course you're right @scottalanmiller, as long as you can show that a specific password was used to access said files. If you can't, well then you haven't identified the user.
If there is only one password, then you know for sure. If not, then you are in the same boat as with usernames needing to track which one was used.
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@Dashrender said:
@coliver said:
@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
@dafyre said:
ownCloud can be used to securely transfer files as well. You can share a folder with a password and Link... and whoever has the password and link can view / upload / download the files in that folder.
You can share multiple folders like this to keep clients / government entities separated.
That is not good enough for HIPAA.
Are you sure? What is the HIPAA requirement?
You have to be able to track it to a specific individual. I suppose as long as no one is sharing the password, i.e. it's only used by one person, then you kinda have that... but I don't consider it really the goal.
@dafyre doesn't mention anything about usernames.
You could easily setup username per client or whatever. Even send out links to reset/create a password. How does knowing the user's IP address give you info about who the user is? Even a username and password would be iffy in this scenario.
While tracking IPs isn't specifically required, it's generally used as part of the verification that a user accessing a system is not accessing it from someplace they shouldn't be accessing it. For example, If a user is in Texas, and the IP they are logging in from is from Japan, someone should be looking into why that user's account was used from a Japanese IP.
Users under the law are able to be held accountable for things accessed with their credentials. I'm sure this is to incentivize the user to maintain control over their account.
how would IP tracking help that? As we've seen this morning IP geotracking doesn't work and often gets the country wrong (@Carnival-Boy reported as in France rather than the UK, me in Germany rather than the UK, etc.) And even when it works, how do you know where the other person is "supposed to be?"
There is no reliable IP Geolocation system so using that with HIPAA seems like a bad idea.
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@coliver said:
So if the user is liable for their own account why are you tracking IP addresses? You just said after you give them the information you are no longer responsible for how they access it.
I'd say tracking IPs is bad because there is nothing good that could come from storing that information.
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@scottalanmiller I'd agree with @Dashrender here. If something happens and a user's account is being used from Japan when the live in Texas... that would be information nice to have.
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@coliver said:
So if the user is liable for their own account why are you tracking IP addresses? You just said after you give them the information you are no longer responsible for how they access it.
Hmm.. I'll have to think on that. Not talking about the law specifically, but why would I want to? To help ensure that only proper access is being used. If there is no reason for someone in Japan to be accessing my systems, yet I see an IP in Japan accessing it, I need to know that.
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@Dashrender said:
@coliver said:
So if the user is liable for their own account why are you tracking IP addresses? You just said after you give them the information you are no longer responsible for how they access it.
Hmm.. I'll have to think on that. Not talking about the law specifically, but why would I want to? To help ensure that only proper access is being used. If there is no reason for someone in Japan to be accessing my systems, yet I see an IP in Japan accessing it, I need to know that.
At that point you would want to look into a intrusion detection system rather then doing it at the application level.
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@dafyre said:
@scottalanmiller I'd agree with @Dashrender here. If something happens and a user's account is being used from Japan when the live in Texas... that would be information nice to have.
To whom would you supply that info? And what would you say "Our database that isn't accurate says you should be here but are using an IP address here?"
Remember they do NOT know that you should be in Texas nor do they know that the IP address is Japan. Those are both presumptions based on information a medical facility would not have.
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@Dashrender said:
Hmm.. I'll have to think on that. Not talking about the law specifically, but why would I want to? To help ensure that only proper access is being used. If there is no reason for someone in Japan to be accessing my systems, yet I see an IP in Japan accessing it, I need to know that.
No, you certainly do not need to know that.
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@scottalanmiller does have a good point that Geo IP tracking is becoming more fruitless as IP blocks are being bought and sold in areas of the world they were not originally destined to be used, and GEO IP's aren't being updated as frequently as they could be.
But, tracking IPs to show that an IP that is significantly outside the range of those normally used to access your system while possibly a red herring, is still useful as a stepping stone when looking for inappropriate access.
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Things you cannot know:
- That the IP is from Japan
- That the person is not supposed to be in Japan
You know neither of these things. How do you want to react with misleading information that makes you assume one thing but doesn't mean that?
