Healthcare Sharing Networks - Have You Used One?
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
and the second part of my question? I don't know about Spain, but I have heard that in Germany if you only get the government provided healthcare, and don't care additional coverage, there are long waits for surgical procedures.
That's total BS. That's what Americans repeat. Germany do NOT wait for healthcare services. Anyone telling you about waits anywhere outside of the US is flat out lying. It's because just one of those things that they've repeated enough that they think that they can get away with claiming it. It's utterly ridiculous. It's totally unfounded.
Every time someone says that, it's always based on the hope that no one will know how to talk to someone in those countries to confirm it. They say it about Canada and the UK, places known for poor healthcase, and they certainly don't have those problems. Places like central Europe (Germany, France, Spain, Italy, Switzerland) that lead the world in healthcare do NOT have those kinds of problems. Their healthcare is cheap and fantastic.
I was speaking to someone who is very well paid in the auto industry in Germany. It's the only reason I was willing to put it here.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
@NetworkNerdWifey said:
Also I think someone asked about the tax thing - yes, we are covered as far as not having to pay the penalty tax. HCSN are allowed under ACA. We have a tax form that we will submit at tax time.
Not worried about the penalty tax... Concerned about the you getting money and not paying taxes on it. Here in Nebraska (and maybe this is federal) you have to report all sources of income. Technically this would be a source of income I would think - but perhaps it's not -it's just so darned weird...
You don't consider NORMAL insurance to be a form of income, right?
yeah, that is why I put the 'so darned weird' part in there...
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
@MattSpeller said:
http://www.ees-financial.com/calculators/TakeHomePayCalculator.htm
Those tax rates (not counting deductions) seem very similar to US tax rates.
Most countries that give free healthcare have taxes relatively similar to the US (if you don't count healthcare cost as a tax, which it is.) If you include mandatory taxes like your health insurance, the US has some of the highest taxes in the world. They keep calling healthcare "insurance" rather than a "tax" to hide how high the taxes are.
That's absolutely true assuming the rest of the setup is as described.
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@Dashrender said:
I was speaking to someone who is very well paid in the auto industry in Germany. It's the only reason I was willing to put it here.
The problem that people often face is that they see a "wait" in their own country and hear rumours that the US has no wait and say that they have a long wait (everyone has some) and don't realize that it is less than in the US (and that they get far better healthcare quality.) It's all relative. They probably wait long compared to France, but not compared to the US.
In England they complain about their healthcare all of the time. It's awful.... unless you compare to the US, then it is great.
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
@MattSpeller said:
http://www.ees-financial.com/calculators/TakeHomePayCalculator.htm
Those tax rates (not counting deductions) seem very similar to US tax rates.
Most countries that give free healthcare have taxes relatively similar to the US (if you don't count healthcare cost as a tax, which it is.) If you include mandatory taxes like your health insurance, the US has some of the highest taxes in the world. They keep calling healthcare "insurance" rather than a "tax" to hide how high the taxes are.
That's absolutely true assuming the rest of the setup is as described.
I know that I've compared Italy which is a "high tax" country. But the amount that I would have to pay there is quite a bit less than I would have to pay in the US and not only would I leap from "basically third world healthcare" to "second best in the world healthcare" but I'd get free university for my kids too for the deal! Less money, more services. It's several percentage points cheaper.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
I was speaking to someone who is very well paid in the auto industry in Germany. It's the only reason I was willing to put it here.
The problem that people often face is that they see a "wait" in their own country and hear rumours that the US has no wait and say that they have a long wait (everyone has some) and don't realize that it is less than in the US (and that they get far better healthcare quality.) It's all relative. They probably wait long compared to France, but not compared to the US.
In England they complain about their healthcare all of the time. It's awful.... unless you compare to the US, then it is great.
I'm not sure who is waiting in the US (assuming they have insurance that covers it). My wife got a diagnosis and had surgery to resolve that diagnosis within 5 days. I'm sure if it would have been needed sooner than that it would have happened faster than that. So what delay do we have for the insured in the US?
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If you have a group health insurance you have to wait a bit here. To get approval then to have the surgery etc. But compared to some countries it's not too bad at all.
Being willing to pay cash for anything no matter what country you are in tends to take that wait time down to nothing.
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
I was speaking to someone who is very well paid in the auto industry in Germany. It's the only reason I was willing to put it here.
The problem that people often face is that they see a "wait" in their own country and hear rumours that the US has no wait and say that they have a long wait (everyone has some) and don't realize that it is less than in the US (and that they get far better healthcare quality.) It's all relative. They probably wait long compared to France, but not compared to the US.
In England they complain about their healthcare all of the time. It's awful.... unless you compare to the US, then it is great.
I'm not sure who is waiting in the US (assuming they have insurance that covers it). My wife got a diagnosis and had surgery to resolve that diagnosis within 5 days. I'm sure if it would have been needed sooner than that it would have happened faster than that. So what delay do we have for the insured in the US?
Five days is a delay. What's the delay in Germany? You'd need a lot of numbers. In the US, for the insured, there are often delays. Rarely tragic ones, but it is not instant. We are talking about non-emergency surgery, of course.
Part of the speed is getting diagnosis faster. We've dealt with this in France that was many times faster and cheaper than the US is able to do at all. Surgeries I've not done myself, but talking to people all over Europe everyone has confirmed that it is very and efficient everywhere.
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@Minion-Queen said:
If you have a group health insurance you have to wait a bit here. To get approval then to have the surgery etc. But compared to some countries it's not too bad at all.
Part of the trick in the US is to wait until after all of the delays to start the "timer" on how long it takes.
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Sure the delay is probably equally due to the OR being full as to any other issues.
Her case was semi emergent. I know part of the delay was OR space and another was getting a physical from her GP for anesthesia.
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From what little I've seen, seeing a GP in Europe takes minutes (more or less literally.) In the US I could go to an Urgent Care for that, but timing it myself that takes many times as long. It's all the little things that add up. Seeing your GP is a 30 minute exercise, not a three hour one. Hitting the pharmacy is fifteen minutes, not an hour or two. Prescriptions are correct not life threatening - a pretty big deal (studies show doctors kill people at an alarming rate in the US.)
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What is an example of a non emergent thing someone would have done that would be covered?
Obviously cancer or origin transplant can't wait.
I have a deviated septum, probably the main reason I rarely breath through my nose. I could have it fixed, but I have no idea if insurance would cover it. Do you think this would be covered by government healthcare in Europe?
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@scottalanmiller said:
From what little I've seen, seeing a GP in Europe takes minutes (more or less literally.) In the US I could go to an Urgent Care for that, but timing it myself that takes many times as long. It's all the little things that add up. Seeing your GP is a 30 minute exercise, not a three hour one. Hitting the pharmacy is fifteen minutes, not an hour or two. Prescriptions are correct not life threatening - a pretty big deal (studies show doctors kill people at an alarming rate in the US.)
Yeah, well considering that many people in the US go to the doctor for every little thing - the GP's are totally backed up, and you're right, it can take days to get in - or go Urgent care and still likely spend hours waiting - I know I have. I am truly discussed by US Emergency rooms - short of you actually dying, they could care less about treating you in a timely manner. I had a pretty bad leg laceration a few years ago... went to the ER, 3.5 hours later I finally left. The waiting room had 1 other person in it, and otherwise was dead. It was ridiculous. OH and then I got the bill. 10 stitches and a few shots costs me $850
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@Dashrender said:
I have a deviated septum, probably the main reason I rarely breath through my nose. I could have it fixed, but I have no idea if insurance would cover it. Do you think this would be covered by government healthcare in Europe?
I would certainly expect that to be covered in Europe.
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
From what little I've seen, seeing a GP in Europe takes minutes (more or less literally.) In the US I could go to an Urgent Care for that, but timing it myself that takes many times as long. It's all the little things that add up. Seeing your GP is a 30 minute exercise, not a three hour one. Hitting the pharmacy is fifteen minutes, not an hour or two. Prescriptions are correct not life threatening - a pretty big deal (studies show doctors kill people at an alarming rate in the US.)
Yeah, well considering that many people in the US go to the doctor for every little thing - the GP's are totally backed up, and you're right, it can take days to get in - or go Urgent care and still likely spend hours waiting - I know I have. I am truly discussed by US Emergency rooms - short of you actually dying, they could care less about treating you in a timely manner. I had a pretty bad leg laceration a few years ago... went to the ER, 3.5 hours later I finally left. The waiting room had 1 other person in it, and otherwise was dead. It was ridiculous. OH and then I got the bill. 10 stitches and a few shots costs me $850
Actually in Europe I think that they go to the GP more often than in the US. They just have more doctors seeing people faster. I know that Japan has a huge culture of "go see the doctor early and often" and they've found that, overall, it reduces the wait times in the system because they catch more things, sooner when they have more chances to fix them easily.
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@Dashrender said:
10 stitches and a few shots costs me $850
That's the other thing, you never actually get covered by insurance. We've had insurance for years, yet always end up paying more out of pocket than if we were in another country without insurance. How does that work?
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@scottalanmiller said:
Actually in Europe I think that they go to the GP more often than in the US. They just have more doctors seeing people faster. I know that Japan has a huge culture of "go see the doctor early and often" and they've found that, overall, it reduces the wait times in the system because they catch more things, sooner when they have more chances to fix them easily.
Japan has its own issues with their healthcare system, but all in all it is so far removed from the crap we have here that the issues are not even comparable.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
10 stitches and a few shots costs me $850
That's the other thing, you never actually get covered by insurance. We've had insurance for years, yet always end up paying more out of pocket than if we were in another country without insurance. How does that work?
Well, I'm on an high deductable, I would have expected to pay around 20% if I had HMO coverage.
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No one's is perfect.
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
10 stitches and a few shots costs me $850
That's the other thing, you never actually get covered by insurance. We've had insurance for years, yet always end up paying more out of pocket than if we were in another country without insurance. How does that work?
Well, I'm on an HA, I would have expected to pay around 20% if I had HMO coverage.
Considering that even the cheapest US insurance is many times the cost of the healthcare taxes in other countries that cover everything... doesn't that seem high?
