Hours I work/PTO
-
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
Well I live in the North and they're here. Even in small towns like the one I grew up in. A town of about 4,000 people.
How many people did not live right in town, though? Of that 4,000... how many could walk there? Was it open 24/7? Could you use it as long as you needed? Can you store data in some way? What about people outside of town before you get to another spot where they can walk to the next library?
The number of people that can reasonably walk safely to a library during non-school or work hours is, I think, amazingly small. It always sounds good "my town had one", but the town next to me (10 miles away) had one little one... but even though I knew tons of people who lived there, I only two maybe two that were close enough to walk to it, including the librarian herself (my friend's mom.)
-
@scottalanmiller said in Hours I work/PTO:
@Jason said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
@scottalanmiller said in Hours I work/PTO:
@Jason said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
@scottalanmiller said in Hours I work/PTO:
@Dashrender said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
Library's have free internet. Most restaurants have free wifi.
The Library's is an OK start, but they are only available when the Library is open. This can be very limiting.
And only for people who live near one. Most poor people do not.
Huh? Most poorer demographics are inner city, which is where libraries are.
And pretty much every local government provides libraries.
Maybe where you are from. Not in the north. Certainly almost nowhere near me.
Of the ones that were around, most were one room deals that have since shut down. No way they would exist or have Internet today.
Well I live in the North and they're here. Even in small towns like the one I grew up in. A town of about 4,000 people.
I grew up in a village of 800, still had a library and internet.
We STILL don't have a gas station, restaurant or store of any kind. Having a library would be weird.
In NY more people live in the open area between villages than in them. The poorest are in the open spaces.
And for the cost of one library you could have just provided Internet to their homes!
False. If you're talking about people out in the middle of nowhere, if there is no line running there, the cost will be much more than a Library.
-
@Dashrender said in Hours I work/PTO:
I think small towns are the least likely to have issues. They're to small to have really bad parts of town in most cases, and as you guys have pointed out, you have a library.
But in the bigger cities, the poor live nearer to the really bad parts of town and walking to a library could be hazardous, and definitely not a close walk.
As for free internet - I've been in those parts of town in my city.. very few private businesses offer internet access to the public there.
Yeah, it is the rich or affluent village and suburban people who feel like libraries are common and accessible. Once you are in a big city and/or rural the poor have little or no access. My nearest tiny village library as a kid was ten miles. TEN MILES. That's not trivial. And I grew up in a rich state with a good library system and lots of resources. I can't even imagine what a more rural state like Iowa would be like.
-
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
False. If you're talking about people out in the middle of nowhere, if there is no line running there, the cost will be much more than a Library.
I don't think that that is true. Library buildings are very expensive. The cost of running a line is relatively low (you can't use fake inflated current monopoly prices as a reference.) Running a line is cheap compared to building AND STAFFING a building.
-
@Dashrender said in Hours I work/PTO:
But in the bigger cities, the poor live nearer to the really bad parts of town and walking to a library could be hazardous, and definitely not a close walk.
At the risk of sounding callous. Why are they living there? A few years ago my wife was laid off from work. We sold almost everything we had to move to FL for work. As stated previously on this site, if you want money, sometimes you have to be willing to move.
-
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
At the risk of sounding callous. Why are they living there?
Because they are POOR.
-
@scottalanmiller said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
At the risk of sounding callous. Why are they living there?
Because they are POOR.
So were we.
-
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
@Dashrender said in Hours I work/PTO:
But in the bigger cities, the poor live nearer to the really bad parts of town and walking to a library could be hazardous, and definitely not a close walk.
At the risk of sounding callous. Why are they living there? A few years ago my wife was laid off from work. We sold almost everything we had to move to FL for work. As stated previously on this site, if you want money, sometimes you have to be willing to move.
Giving up everything you have and know to go some place else to try to find work is beyond what I would call frightening. Is it needed sometimes, yes.
-
@scottalanmiller said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
False. If you're talking about people out in the middle of nowhere, if there is no line running there, the cost will be much more than a Library.
I don't think that that is true. Library buildings are very expensive. The cost of running a line is relatively low (you can't use fake inflated current monopoly prices as a reference.) Running a line is cheap compared to building AND STAFFING a building.
There is no way. The cost of contractors running lines is very high. The cost of fiber is high. You can't use fake inflated prices for buildings either. It doesn't have to be a fancy building. The library in the town where I grew up had wood panel walls and bad carpet.
-
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
. As stated previously on this site, if you want money, sometimes you have to be willing to move.
We aren't talking about white collar professionals wanting to advance their careers. We are talking about kids who might never get the needed access to be viable in the economy.
-
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
@scottalanmiller said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
At the risk of sounding callous. Why are they living there?
Because they are POOR.
So were we.
Not if you could afford to move.
-
@scottalanmiller said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
@scottalanmiller said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
At the risk of sounding callous. Why are they living there?
Because they are POOR.
So were we.
Not if you could afford to move.
Again, we sold everything to just be able to pay to move.
-
@Dashrender said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
@Dashrender said in Hours I work/PTO:
But in the bigger cities, the poor live nearer to the really bad parts of town and walking to a library could be hazardous, and definitely not a close walk.
At the risk of sounding callous. Why are they living there? A few years ago my wife was laid off from work. We sold almost everything we had to move to FL for work. As stated previously on this site, if you want money, sometimes you have to be willing to move.
Giving up everything you have and know to go some place else to try to find work is beyond what I would call frightening. Is it needed sometimes, yes.
How would you know where to move? What if you didn't have the Internet to look for a home, know where jobs were, find a job, etc.?
And if you have nothing to sell, how would you raise the money to move?
-
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
@scottalanmiller said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
@scottalanmiller said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
At the risk of sounding callous. Why are they living there?
Because they are POOR.
So were we.
Not if you could afford to move.
Again, we sold everything to just be able to pay to move.
How did you know where to move?
-
Speaking of running those lines - it's already required by the federal government that power and phone lines be made available in most of those places, so dial-up is an option.
-
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
@scottalanmiller said in Hours I work/PTO:
@Jason said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
@scottalanmiller said in Hours I work/PTO:
@Jason said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
@scottalanmiller said in Hours I work/PTO:
@Dashrender said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
Library's have free internet. Most restaurants have free wifi.
The Library's is an OK start, but they are only available when the Library is open. This can be very limiting.
And only for people who live near one. Most poor people do not.
Huh? Most poorer demographics are inner city, which is where libraries are.
And pretty much every local government provides libraries.
Maybe where you are from. Not in the north. Certainly almost nowhere near me.
Of the ones that were around, most were one room deals that have since shut down. No way they would exist or have Internet today.
Well I live in the North and they're here. Even in small towns like the one I grew up in. A town of about 4,000 people.
I grew up in a village of 800, still had a library and internet.
We STILL don't have a gas station, restaurant or store of any kind. Having a library would be weird.
In NY more people live in the open area between villages than in them. The poorest are in the open spaces.
And for the cost of one library you could have just provided Internet to their homes!
False. If you're talking about people out in the middle of nowhere, if there is no line running there, the cost will be much more than a Library.
Long distance microwave, just like anywhere else rural. We cut down on cost for rural customers substantially. It's also not like the high satellite costs. One dish can service a village (moderate speeds) for 5-10 years before we replace it and the dish costs 5-10k... At $1000/year or less at our cost, that's not bad at all.
-
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
There is no way. The cost of contractors running lines is very high. The cost of fiber is high. You can't use fake inflated prices for buildings either. It doesn't have to be a fancy building. The library in the town where I grew up had wood panel walls and bad carpet.
But the whole point was that we wouldn't have contractors anymore. And fiber is not high. The cost of running lines would be very low. That's part of the objective... lower the cost for everyone so that everyone wins. No one loses.
-
@Dashrender said in Hours I work/PTO:
Speaking of running those lines - it's already required by the federal government that power and phone lines be made available in most of those places, so dial-up is an option.
Or Internet over Power!!
-
@BBigford said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
@scottalanmiller said in Hours I work/PTO:
@Jason said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
@scottalanmiller said in Hours I work/PTO:
@Jason said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
@scottalanmiller said in Hours I work/PTO:
@Dashrender said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
Library's have free internet. Most restaurants have free wifi.
The Library's is an OK start, but they are only available when the Library is open. This can be very limiting.
And only for people who live near one. Most poor people do not.
Huh? Most poorer demographics are inner city, which is where libraries are.
And pretty much every local government provides libraries.
Maybe where you are from. Not in the north. Certainly almost nowhere near me.
Of the ones that were around, most were one room deals that have since shut down. No way they would exist or have Internet today.
Well I live in the North and they're here. Even in small towns like the one I grew up in. A town of about 4,000 people.
I grew up in a village of 800, still had a library and internet.
We STILL don't have a gas station, restaurant or store of any kind. Having a library would be weird.
In NY more people live in the open area between villages than in them. The poorest are in the open spaces.
And for the cost of one library you could have just provided Internet to their homes!
False. If you're talking about people out in the middle of nowhere, if there is no line running there, the cost will be much more than a Library.
Long distance microwave, just like anywhere else rural. We cut down on cost for rural customers substantially. It's also not like the high satellite costs. One dish can service a village (moderate speeds) for 5-10 years before we replace it and the dish costs 5-10k... At $1000/year or less at our cost, that's not bad at all.
Most rural municipalities already have a radio tower for emergency system communications. This would be fairly simple to tack on top of.
-
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
@scottalanmiller said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
@scottalanmiller said in Hours I work/PTO:
@johnhooks said in Hours I work/PTO:
At the risk of sounding callous. Why are they living there?
Because they are POOR.
So were we.
Not if you could afford to move.
Again, we sold everything to just be able to pay to move.
But as Scott asked.. how did you know where to go? did you already have a job there waiting for you? Where did you stay?
There are some people who, if they sold everything they had wouldn't have more than probably $2-400 to their name.
