PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?
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@dafyre said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
@scottalanmiller said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
@dafyre said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
@scottalanmiller said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
@dafyre said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
They can throw me in jail. Thta's like telling a PC Repair Technician that they cannot replace a hard drive because it will void the warranty. Yeah? So?
No, this is totally unrelated to warranties.
True, totally unrelated. But would you throw your average user who is attempting to replace their hard drive in jail because they made the problem worse?
That's what companies do, yes.
Arguably in this case, I'd call it a fine. "you attempted to fix it, and you made it worse. Now instead of $50 for a new hard drive, you have to pay $300 for a new motherboard and a new hard drive"
But the whole point is that you can actually face jail time.
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@scottalanmiller said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
@dafyre said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
@scottalanmiller said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
@dafyre said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
@scottalanmiller said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
@dafyre said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
They can throw me in jail. Thta's like telling a PC Repair Technician that they cannot replace a hard drive because it will void the warranty. Yeah? So?
No, this is totally unrelated to warranties.
True, totally unrelated. But would you throw your average user who is attempting to replace their hard drive in jail because they made the problem worse?
That's what companies do, yes.
Arguably in this case, I'd call it a fine. "you attempted to fix it, and you made it worse. Now instead of $50 for a new hard drive, you have to pay $300 for a new motherboard and a new hard drive"
But the whole point is that you can actually face jail time.
This is the reason some things need to be open (Is it me, or did we say all that and just go full circle?).
If I have the know how, or think I have the know how to fix something, why should I not be legally able to try? How do you learn, but by experience?
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@dafyre said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
This is the reason some things need to be open (Is it me, or did we say all that and just go full circle?).
If I have the know how, or think I have the know how to fix something, why should I not be legally able to try? How do you learn, but by experience?
But it has to be open to do the thing you just said. Being able to try requires it being open, currently.
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Basically, open means the right to try to fix it yourself.
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@scottalanmiller said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
Basically, open means the right to try to fix it yourself.
I think that may be what confuses me... Does my car design have to be open for me to legally replace the fan belts?
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In most of these cases (you guys are using extremes, attempting to fix it as the argument is BS).
You can attempt to work on anything you own, outright without facing charges. If you attempt to change or publish what you found, how it works etc that is where you get into trouble.
@scottalanmiller have you ever been disclosed from discussing in public about how to repair a hardware problem for a system? Or has it always been "you can't discuss how it operates"
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@dafyre said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
@scottalanmiller said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
Basically, open means the right to try to fix it yourself.
I think that may be what confuses me... Does my car design have to be open for me to legally replace the fan belts?
Yes. But your car design IS open, more or less. That part of it, at least. It's not open with a GPL license, but it is not obscured from you. So it is default open.
That was the point of the video. It used to all be open and you were allowed to work on it. The DMCA provided the power to make it illegal to work on things that were closed and many companies have leveraged this intentionally or accidentally making working on your own stuff easily illegal in many cases.
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@DustinB3403 said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
You can attempt to work on anything you own, outright without facing charges. If you attempt to change or publish what you found, how it works etc that is where you get into trouble.
No, this is specifically incorrect and was the point of the article.
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I am legally protected to do whatever I want with something I own, lets use the Tractor as an example.
If I'm upset it's not pulling 100 MPH while plowing the fields so I tinker with the engine, I'm entitled to do that I own it. If I break it, and then try to repair it myself I'm still entitled to do this.
If I started discussing the exact engine design in public, and how easy this or that is to make better, than I would be in trouble. Working on the device isn't the issue. It's actually discussing what you find.
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@DustinB3403 said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
@scottalanmiller have you ever been disclosed from discussing in public about how to repair a hardware problem for a system? Or has it always been "you can't discuss how it operates"
In the cases in question, you can't even open them to see what is there. Windows is an example. If you find a bug in the code, you are not allowed to open up the system to see how it runs to fix it yourself. Just opening it is illegal.
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@DustinB3403 said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
I am legally protected to do whatever I want with something I own, lets use the Tractor as an example.
No, the point of this is that you are not.
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@DustinB3403 said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
If I'm upset it's not pulling 100 MPH while plowing the fields so I tinker with the engine, I'm entitled to do that I own it. If I break it, and then try to repair it myself I'm still entitled to do this.
Only if you are tinkering with open parts of the system. I don't know where you think that you get this right from, but not in the US you don't.
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@scottalanmiller said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
@DustinB3403 said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
I am legally protected to do whatever I want with something I own, lets use the Tractor as an example.
No, the point of this is that you are not.
Yes I am (physical property is protected so I can do whatever I want with it).
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@DustinB3403 said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
@scottalanmiller said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
@DustinB3403 said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
I am legally protected to do whatever I want with something I own, lets use the Tractor as an example.
No, the point of this is that you are not.
Yes I am (physical property is protected so I can do whatever I want with it).
You can keep stating it, but the DMCA states that you are incorrect and has been proven many times in court. What you are stating is simply untrue.
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Software is protected from people tinkering, system designs are protected, but there is nothing which says I can't take my tractor apart. Besides maybe a warranty (which would be voided if I did with it in warranty)
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@DustinB3403 said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
Software is protected from people tinkering, system designs are protected, but there is nothing which says I can't take my tractor apart. Besides maybe a warranty (which would be voided if I did with it in warranty)
No one should mention warranties here. They are totally unrelated and confusing because they get people thinking that this is a support item.
Engines run on software today. The software is part of the system, part of the engine.
But the engine can be made into a closed system too, the DMCA covers even that, I'm pretty sure, if they do it correctly.
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@scottalanmiller said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
@DustinB3403 said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
@scottalanmiller said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
@DustinB3403 said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
I am legally protected to do whatever I want with something I own, lets use the Tractor as an example.
No, the point of this is that you are not.
Yes I am (physical property is protected so I can do whatever I want with it).
You can keep stating it, but the DMCA states that you are incorrect and has been proven many times in court. What you are stating is simply untrue.
Digital... not physical.
I can take apart the engine of my tractor and work on it all I want. I may not be able to access the software there (which again goes to what I've already said).
Software rights of design are protected, physical property is not. I could set the tractor on fire and be within my rights.
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@DustinB3403 said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
Software rights of design are protected, physical property is not. I could set the tractor on fire and be within my rights.
Even if that is correct, it does not matter, as part of the engine is in the software.
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@DustinB3403 said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
@scottalanmiller said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
@DustinB3403 said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
I am legally protected to do whatever I want with something I own, lets use the Tractor as an example.
No, the point of this is that you are not.
Yes I am (physical property is protected so I can do whatever I want with it).
There was bill recently in NY, it failed, that would have made it illegal to work on proprietary hardware and software. It was so broad that it could have easily been applied to cars and tractors.
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@scottalanmiller said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
@DustinB3403 said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
Software rights of design are protected, physical property is not. I could set the tractor on fire and be within my rights.
Even if that is correct, it does not matter, as part of the engine is in the software.
But the discussion is of "can I look at it" and the current laws say you can look at anything you want. I can look at the software of the tractor, but not modify it. If I even have a means to "look" at the code. More so would I know what to do with the code?
I can look at the engine, and even modify / repair it as it's a physical piece of property.
