Windows 7/8.1 EOL
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@scottalanmiller said:
@IRJ said:
I disagree. The cost to maintain an OS is much less than the cost of making all the software vendors keep up. The prices for other software will go up as the development demands increase.
But exclusively of software that makes the Microsoft ecosystem look bad. All of those vendors are vendors that hurt MS in the long run. Those other vendors, if they were doing even a crappy job, would not need to do anything to keep up. It is exclusively vendors not writing software as MS has told them to do so safely that would have an issue of any magnitude. MS goes dramatically out of their way to handhold vendors to make sure no software has issues like that.
In a dreamworld, all vendor software is up to date, but in reality it doesn't work that way. Changing software that is the backbone of your business isn't easy and there is no guarantee that the vendor you switch to will be any better in the long run.
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@IRJ said:
In a dreamworld, all vendor software is up to date, but in reality it doesn't work that way. Changing software that is the backbone of your business isn't easy and there is no guarantee that the vendor you switch to will be any better in the long run.
I totally understand that. But your point was that MS isn't doing the right thing by not supporting bad software because it costs everyone too much. But businesses choose that software and choose to support those vendors and it is those vendors, not MS, that are screwing those customers and creating cost, not MS. You can argue the value of old software that needs special support, but there is no way to hoist the blame for that cost on to MS. MS has made it easy for those issues to never exist. Blame the vendors at fault, it's not MS' fault. It's the vendors and customers faults that they make software that way and are okay with paying for software made that way. If it costs extra to support, that's their decision and has nothing to do with MS.
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Remember on the flipside, companies that DO run software from vendors that don't do this would not be happy if MS spent money supporting those other businesses. Microsoft has to choose who to cater to - those who make good software or those that make bad. Guess which makes the most sense to support.
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I get what Microsoft is trying to do. They are trying to move the Android and iOS update model which is easy to support. They want everyone on Windows 10 and they will install updates forever and probably for free similar to how Android and Apple release their updates.
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@IRJ said:
I get what Microsoft is trying to do. They are trying to move the Android and iOS update model which is easy to support. They want everyone on Windows 10 and they will install updates forever and probably for free similar to how Android and Apple release their updates.
Exactly. And this isn't just good for them, but good for nearly everyone. And most importantly - it is good for their best customers and best partner vendors. The people who get "hurt" by this are those that have not embraced the Windows ecosystem and are rarely good customers already.
So it is a way to improve the system on MS' end and to help their best customers get even more while only hurting the people that aren't too important to anyone and only those that could choose on their own to change their situation.
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@Kelly said:
@Dashrender said:
@Kelly said:
@Dashrender said:
@Kelly said:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle#Supporting-the-latest-processor
So what though?
Assuming that the predecessor for Skylake comes out before July 2017, then MS should release support for it as well, though it's possible they won't. You'll have all the support you need for Skylake long before the 2017 deadline.
It's not like on the deadline they are going to roll out a patch that removes the support they have already created.
Skylake won't be getting any development at all from Intel, let alone MS, for over a year before this deadline. Heck, is Intel doing any development now with regards to Skylake? It's already made, being sold. It's in the pipe. I suppose they could make more chips different speeds based on the tech, and while doing so add in more features - but can they really? Would it be Skylake anymore if they add new features not already listed as part of Skylake?
I'm stating that the vendor isn't stating anything incorrect. They're not lying. This is what Microsoft is actually stating. In effect Microsoft is stating that they will not release security patches for non Win10 versions that are running on the listed processors. Yes, your computer will not cease working, but you will not be patched.
I suppose, as Scott loves to point out, and I lead to in one of my earlier posts, they are skirting as close to the edge with their information as possible.
I'm genuinely curious - when was the last time that MS released a security update for a chipset/processor? And even when they do, how often does that really happen? And lastly, how often does it happen after the processor is 1+ years old?
It sounds like you have some misunderstanding about their article. They will not be releasing OS patches for older operating systems in hardware that runs specific processors or newer. The processor isn't what is being patched. It is the delineating factor in whether or not they will be patching the OS.
What do you mean?
Are you saying that Windows 7 running on Skylake will not be able to install the security patches that are released after July of 2017? That would be madness.
But that is exactly what this letter is implying.@IRJ said:
So what? As of July 17, 2017, if your organization is still running Windows 7 or 8.1 on a 6th generation or newer Intel processor, you will no longer receive regular security patches and support.
If I'm running Windows 7 or 8.1 on 6th gen or newer as of that date, I won't get any more security update - Yeah I just don't believe it.
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@Dashrender said:
@Kelly said:
@Dashrender said:
@Kelly said:
@Dashrender said:
@Kelly said:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle#Supporting-the-latest-processor
So what though?
Assuming that the predecessor for Skylake comes out before July 2017, then MS should release support for it as well, though it's possible they won't. You'll have all the support you need for Skylake long before the 2017 deadline.
It's not like on the deadline they are going to roll out a patch that removes the support they have already created.
Skylake won't be getting any development at all from Intel, let alone MS, for over a year before this deadline. Heck, is Intel doing any development now with regards to Skylake? It's already made, being sold. It's in the pipe. I suppose they could make more chips different speeds based on the tech, and while doing so add in more features - but can they really? Would it be Skylake anymore if they add new features not already listed as part of Skylake?
I'm stating that the vendor isn't stating anything incorrect. They're not lying. This is what Microsoft is actually stating. In effect Microsoft is stating that they will not release security patches for non Win10 versions that are running on the listed processors. Yes, your computer will not cease working, but you will not be patched.
I suppose, as Scott loves to point out, and I lead to in one of my earlier posts, they are skirting as close to the edge with their information as possible.
I'm genuinely curious - when was the last time that MS released a security update for a chipset/processor? And even when they do, how often does that really happen? And lastly, how often does it happen after the processor is 1+ years old?
It sounds like you have some misunderstanding about their article. They will not be releasing OS patches for older operating systems in hardware that runs specific processors or newer. The processor isn't what is being patched. It is the delineating factor in whether or not they will be patching the OS.
What do you mean?
Are you saying that Windows 7 running on Skylake will not be able to install the security patches that are released after July of 2017? That would be madness.
But that is exactly what this letter is implying.@IRJ said:
So what? As of July 17, 2017, if your organization is still running Windows 7 or 8.1 on a 6th generation or newer Intel processor, you will no longer receive regular security patches and support.
If I'm running Windows 7 or 8.1 on 6th gen or newer as of that date, I won't get any more security update - Yeah I just don't believe it.
It's not that they won't patch them, it's that it is not supported. If there is an issue with that setup, it's not something that MS committed to support.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
@Kelly said:
@Dashrender said:
@Kelly said:
@Dashrender said:
@Kelly said:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle#Supporting-the-latest-processor
So what though?
Assuming that the predecessor for Skylake comes out before July 2017, then MS should release support for it as well, though it's possible they won't. You'll have all the support you need for Skylake long before the 2017 deadline.
It's not like on the deadline they are going to roll out a patch that removes the support they have already created.
Skylake won't be getting any development at all from Intel, let alone MS, for over a year before this deadline. Heck, is Intel doing any development now with regards to Skylake? It's already made, being sold. It's in the pipe. I suppose they could make more chips different speeds based on the tech, and while doing so add in more features - but can they really? Would it be Skylake anymore if they add new features not already listed as part of Skylake?
I'm stating that the vendor isn't stating anything incorrect. They're not lying. This is what Microsoft is actually stating. In effect Microsoft is stating that they will not release security patches for non Win10 versions that are running on the listed processors. Yes, your computer will not cease working, but you will not be patched.
I suppose, as Scott loves to point out, and I lead to in one of my earlier posts, they are skirting as close to the edge with their information as possible.
I'm genuinely curious - when was the last time that MS released a security update for a chipset/processor? And even when they do, how often does that really happen? And lastly, how often does it happen after the processor is 1+ years old?
It sounds like you have some misunderstanding about their article. They will not be releasing OS patches for older operating systems in hardware that runs specific processors or newer. The processor isn't what is being patched. It is the delineating factor in whether or not they will be patching the OS.
What do you mean?
Are you saying that Windows 7 running on Skylake will not be able to install the security patches that are released after July of 2017? That would be madness.
But that is exactly what this letter is implying.@IRJ said:
So what? As of July 17, 2017, if your organization is still running Windows 7 or 8.1 on a 6th generation or newer Intel processor, you will no longer receive regular security patches and support.
If I'm running Windows 7 or 8.1 on 6th gen or newer as of that date, I won't get any more security update - Yeah I just don't believe it.
It's not that they won't patch them, it's that it is not supported. If there is an issue with that setup, it's not something that MS committed to support.
But that means they don't have to patch them, either?
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I also have a feeling Microsoft will extend the free upgrade to Windows 10 past January pretty much indefinitely.
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@IRJ said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
@Kelly said:
@Dashrender said:
@Kelly said:
@Dashrender said:
@Kelly said:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle#Supporting-the-latest-processor
So what though?
Assuming that the predecessor for Skylake comes out before July 2017, then MS should release support for it as well, though it's possible they won't. You'll have all the support you need for Skylake long before the 2017 deadline.
It's not like on the deadline they are going to roll out a patch that removes the support they have already created.
Skylake won't be getting any development at all from Intel, let alone MS, for over a year before this deadline. Heck, is Intel doing any development now with regards to Skylake? It's already made, being sold. It's in the pipe. I suppose they could make more chips different speeds based on the tech, and while doing so add in more features - but can they really? Would it be Skylake anymore if they add new features not already listed as part of Skylake?
I'm stating that the vendor isn't stating anything incorrect. They're not lying. This is what Microsoft is actually stating. In effect Microsoft is stating that they will not release security patches for non Win10 versions that are running on the listed processors. Yes, your computer will not cease working, but you will not be patched.
I suppose, as Scott loves to point out, and I lead to in one of my earlier posts, they are skirting as close to the edge with their information as possible.
I'm genuinely curious - when was the last time that MS released a security update for a chipset/processor? And even when they do, how often does that really happen? And lastly, how often does it happen after the processor is 1+ years old?
It sounds like you have some misunderstanding about their article. They will not be releasing OS patches for older operating systems in hardware that runs specific processors or newer. The processor isn't what is being patched. It is the delineating factor in whether or not they will be patching the OS.
What do you mean?
Are you saying that Windows 7 running on Skylake will not be able to install the security patches that are released after July of 2017? That would be madness.
But that is exactly what this letter is implying.@IRJ said:
So what? As of July 17, 2017, if your organization is still running Windows 7 or 8.1 on a 6th generation or newer Intel processor, you will no longer receive regular security patches and support.
If I'm running Windows 7 or 8.1 on 6th gen or newer as of that date, I won't get any more security update - Yeah I just don't believe it.
It's not that they won't patch them, it's that it is not supported. If there is an issue with that setup, it's not something that MS committed to support.
But that means they don't have to patch them, either?
Correct, they have no requirement to do so and anyone relying on that has no recourse. It's really power for IT pros to go back to businesses and say "well, this is where the industry stops supporting what you are doing... if we keep not updating, we have no one to rely on".
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@Dashrender said:
@Kelly said:
@Dashrender said:
@Kelly said:
@Dashrender said:
@Kelly said:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle#Supporting-the-latest-processor
So what though?
Assuming that the predecessor for Skylake comes out before July 2017, then MS should release support for it as well, though it's possible they won't. You'll have all the support you need for Skylake long before the 2017 deadline.
It's not like on the deadline they are going to roll out a patch that removes the support they have already created.
Skylake won't be getting any development at all from Intel, let alone MS, for over a year before this deadline. Heck, is Intel doing any development now with regards to Skylake? It's already made, being sold. It's in the pipe. I suppose they could make more chips different speeds based on the tech, and while doing so add in more features - but can they really? Would it be Skylake anymore if they add new features not already listed as part of Skylake?
I'm stating that the vendor isn't stating anything incorrect. They're not lying. This is what Microsoft is actually stating. In effect Microsoft is stating that they will not release security patches for non Win10 versions that are running on the listed processors. Yes, your computer will not cease working, but you will not be patched.
I suppose, as Scott loves to point out, and I lead to in one of my earlier posts, they are skirting as close to the edge with their information as possible.
I'm genuinely curious - when was the last time that MS released a security update for a chipset/processor? And even when they do, how often does that really happen? And lastly, how often does it happen after the processor is 1+ years old?
It sounds like you have some misunderstanding about their article. They will not be releasing OS patches for older operating systems in hardware that runs specific processors or newer. The processor isn't what is being patched. It is the delineating factor in whether or not they will be patching the OS.
What do you mean?
Are you saying that Windows 7 running on Skylake will not be able to install the security patches that are released after July of 2017? That would be madness.
But that is exactly what this letter is implying.@IRJ said:
So what? As of July 17, 2017, if your organization is still running Windows 7 or 8.1 on a 6th generation or newer Intel processor, you will no longer receive regular security patches and support.
If I'm running Windows 7 or 8.1 on 6th gen or newer as of that date, I won't get any more security update - Yeah I just don't believe it.
That is correct. Here is the original blog post from Terry Myerson (https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2016/01/15/windows-10-embracing-silicon-innovation/ near the bottom):
"Windows 7 will continue to be supported for security, reliability, and compatibility through January 14, 2020 on previous generation silicon. Windows 8.1 will receive the same support through January 10, 2023. This includes most of the devices available for purchase today by consumers or enterprises."
"Going forward, as new silicon generations are introduced, they will require the latest Windows platform at that time for support. This enables us to focus on deep integration between Windows and the silicon, while maintaining maximum reliability and compatibility with previous generations of platform and silicon. For example, Windows 10 will be the only supported Windows platform on Intel’s upcoming “Kaby Lake” silicon, Qualcomm’s upcoming “8996” silicon, and AMD’s upcoming “Bristol Ridge” silicon."
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@Kelly said:
That is correct.
I'm sorry, what is correct?
"Windows 7 will continue to be supported for security, reliability, and compatibility through January 14, 2020 on previous generation silicon. Windows 8.1 will receive the same support through January 10, 2023. This includes most of the devices available for purchase today by consumers or enterprises."
We are already in the phase for Windows 7 where all Microsoft is required to supply are security updates. So they'll drop the reliability and compatibility options for new things, but that doesn't mean that a new security update wouldn't work on Skylake - at best, as Scott is saying is that maybe - maybe if you have a problem with a security patch and you're on a system with Skylake, MS won't give you support.
But the chances are that it will work just fine.
As for supported versus not supported - when was the last time anyone here called MS for support on a desktop client? Other than asking for a download from a KB I found myself - I've never called them for support.
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@Dashrender said:
@Kelly said:
That is correct.
I'm sorry, what is correct?
"Windows 7 will continue to be supported for security, reliability, and compatibility through January 14, 2020 on previous generation silicon. Windows 8.1 will receive the same support through January 10, 2023. This includes most of the devices available for purchase today by consumers or enterprises."
We are already in the phase for Windows 7 where all Microsoft is required to supply are security updates. So they'll drop the reliability and compatibility options for new things, but that doesn't mean that a new security update wouldn't work on Skylake - at best, as Scott is saying is that maybe - maybe if you have a problem with a security patch and you're on a system with Skylake, MS won't give you support.
But the chances are that it will work just fine.
As for supported versus not supported - when was the last time anyone here called MS for support on a desktop client? Other than asking for a download from a KB I found myself - I've never called them for support.
You asked a question and I was responding to it with my "You are correct." I hope you are right. I'm just reading their statements, and proceeding accordingly. I am going to proceed on the assumption that any hardware running SkyLake 6th gen or newer needs to be running Windows 10. You might be able to still get patches, from a business perspective it isn't worth the risk in my mind.
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I'm with you - one of the big reasons for my other thread Should I upgrade.
I think everyone that can should upgrade now. Do not wait.
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@Kelly said:
@Dashrender said:
@Kelly said:
That is correct.
I'm sorry, what is correct?
"Windows 7 will continue to be supported for security, reliability, and compatibility through January 14, 2020 on previous generation silicon. Windows 8.1 will receive the same support through January 10, 2023. This includes most of the devices available for purchase today by consumers or enterprises."
We are already in the phase for Windows 7 where all Microsoft is required to supply are security updates. So they'll drop the reliability and compatibility options for new things, but that doesn't mean that a new security update wouldn't work on Skylake - at best, as Scott is saying is that maybe - maybe if you have a problem with a security patch and you're on a system with Skylake, MS won't give you support.
But the chances are that it will work just fine.
As for supported versus not supported - when was the last time anyone here called MS for support on a desktop client? Other than asking for a download from a KB I found myself - I've never called them for support.
You asked a question and I was responding to it with my "You are correct." I hope you are right. I'm just reading their statements, and proceeding accordingly. I am going to proceed on the assumption that any hardware running SkyLake 6th gen or newer needs to be running Windows 10. You might be able to still get patches, from a business perspective it isn't worth the risk in my mind.
Microsoft could easily not give any updates to hardware running Skylake just as easy. If skylake=no updates is entirely possible and easy enough for Microsoft to implement.
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@IRJ said:
@Kelly said:
@Dashrender said:
@Kelly said:
That is correct.
I'm sorry, what is correct?
"Windows 7 will continue to be supported for security, reliability, and compatibility through January 14, 2020 on previous generation silicon. Windows 8.1 will receive the same support through January 10, 2023. This includes most of the devices available for purchase today by consumers or enterprises."
We are already in the phase for Windows 7 where all Microsoft is required to supply are security updates. So they'll drop the reliability and compatibility options for new things, but that doesn't mean that a new security update wouldn't work on Skylake - at best, as Scott is saying is that maybe - maybe if you have a problem with a security patch and you're on a system with Skylake, MS won't give you support.
But the chances are that it will work just fine.
As for supported versus not supported - when was the last time anyone here called MS for support on a desktop client? Other than asking for a download from a KB I found myself - I've never called them for support.
You asked a question and I was responding to it with my "You are correct." I hope you are right. I'm just reading their statements, and proceeding accordingly. I am going to proceed on the assumption that any hardware running SkyLake 6th gen or newer needs to be running Windows 10. You might be able to still get patches, from a business perspective it isn't worth the risk in my mind.
Microsoft could easily not give any updates to hardware running Skylake just as easy. If skylake=no updates is entirely possible and easy enough for Microsoft to implement.
This would be unprecedented and probably cause reasons for lawsuits. MS has claimed that they will provide security updates until 2020. While it's true, that maybe they could do this, I just don't see it happening.
What I do see happening is Windows 7/8.1 not supporting all features in Kaby Lake. But again, assuming the typical Intel backward compatibility paradigm, while new features might not work, I would expect that you could install them on Kaby Lake.
Of course, we're running into architectural changes such as UEFI that older OSes have a hard if not impossible time dealing with.
This is probably an additional root why MS is making these statements. Windows 7 does not deal well with UEFI, MS had to do some substantial coding to make it work so it's been reported, I can understand their desire to not do that for any more new chips.
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@Dashrender said:
@IRJ said:
@Kelly said:
@Dashrender said:
@Kelly said:
That is correct.
I'm sorry, what is correct?
"Windows 7 will continue to be supported for security, reliability, and compatibility through January 14, 2020 on previous generation silicon. Windows 8.1 will receive the same support through January 10, 2023. This includes most of the devices available for purchase today by consumers or enterprises."
We are already in the phase for Windows 7 where all Microsoft is required to supply are security updates. So they'll drop the reliability and compatibility options for new things, but that doesn't mean that a new security update wouldn't work on Skylake - at best, as Scott is saying is that maybe - maybe if you have a problem with a security patch and you're on a system with Skylake, MS won't give you support.
But the chances are that it will work just fine.
As for supported versus not supported - when was the last time anyone here called MS for support on a desktop client? Other than asking for a download from a KB I found myself - I've never called them for support.
You asked a question and I was responding to it with my "You are correct." I hope you are right. I'm just reading their statements, and proceeding accordingly. I am going to proceed on the assumption that any hardware running SkyLake 6th gen or newer needs to be running Windows 10. You might be able to still get patches, from a business perspective it isn't worth the risk in my mind.
Microsoft could easily not give any updates to hardware running Skylake just as easy. If skylake=no updates is entirely possible and easy enough for Microsoft to implement.
This would be unprecedented and probably cause reasons for lawsuits. MS has claimed that they will provide security updates until 2020. While it's true, that maybe they could do this, I just don't see it happening.
What I do see happening is Windows 7/8.1 not supporting all features in Kaby Lake. But again, assuming the typical Intel backward compatibility paradigm, while new features might not work, I would expect that you could install them on Kaby Lake.
Of course, we're running into architectural changes such as UEFI that older OSes have a hard if not impossible time dealing with.
This is probably an additional root why MS is making these statements. Windows 7 does not deal well with UEFI, MS had to do some substantial coding to make it work so it's been reported, I can understand their desire to not do that for any more new chips.
How many unprecedented things have seen this year and last year? It really wouldn't surprise me. If you want to move everyone to a new OS you have to make a stand somewhere and somehow.
