Winning the Lottery
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@scottalanmiller said:
If you take the lump sum vs. the payout let's show some math....
- The taxes are about the same because they are at the max. So no tax advantage to the long term pay off.
- One allows you to invest, the other steals your money through inflation (unless you believe that there will be deflation over 20 years which has never happened in history but hey, if you are the betting kind...)
So let's way you get $20m after taxes. That's one $20m payoff or 20 $1m payoffs.
The lump goes straight into investments and ears roughly $2m a year in interest. In the FIRST YEAR you are making more in interest on the money than the annual payoff will be. You earn an extra $1 after the first year ALONE.
Going into the second year, assuming both are investing, the lump person has $22m and the other has $1m. The year end revenue will be $2.2m vs .1m. The person with the lump sum is actually accelerating in revenue versus the person taking the long term payoff.
It would be estimated that by the time that the payoff of $20m was completed, the lump person could have $80m or so, in the bank.
I hope you do not claim any kind of accounting knowledge, because that is a load of crap.
- The raw taxes may balance out to be similar, yes. But you get taxed again on the investment income when you invest that lump sum. So it raises the effect tax rate again.
- You are assuming that the lump sum is continually reinvested while the payout is not.
- A $2 million yearly return on $20 million is a 10% return. That is a crazy number to expect with typical low risk investing.
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Now, it is true that the best advice is always to take the lump sum. Investing smartly, you should always come out ahead of the annuity plans.
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@JaredBusch said:
Now, it is true that the best advice is always to take the lump sum. Investing smartly, you should always come out ahead of the annuity plans.
Mark Cuban's advice from the link @dafyre posted was to NOT take the lump sum but seems like he's giving that advice assuming we're all dumb asses that will buy 2 mansions, 3 boats, a pile of drugs, 20 cars and an IHOP and cross our fingers we can live off IHOP profits for the rest of our lives.
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@quicky2g said:
@JaredBusch said:
Now, it is true that the best advice is always to take the lump sum. Investing smartly, you should always come out ahead of the annuity plans.
Mark Cuban's advice from the link @dafyre posted was to NOT take the lump sum but seems like he's giving that advice assuming we're all dumb asses that will buy 2 mansions, 3 boats, a pile of drugs, 20 cars and an IHOP and cross our fingers we can live off IHOP profits for the rest of our lives.
Well most of 'Murica should probably take that advice.
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@quicky2g said:
@JaredBusch said:
Now, it is true that the best advice is always to take the lump sum. Investing smartly, you should always come out ahead of the annuity plans.
Mark Cuban's advice from the link @dafyre posted was to NOT take the lump sum but seems like he's giving that advice assuming we're all dumb asses that will buy 2 mansions, 3 boats, a pile of drugs, 20 cars and an IHOP and cross our fingers we can live off IHOP profits for the rest of our lives.
The problem with assumed bad advice is that you assume someone will take your advice on the lump but not on the investing. It's a fundamentally flawed logical stance. If you are giving advice, you should give good advice. Not give bad advice in the hopes that you gave just enough wrong that they will screw up and fix things by not listening to you.
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I long ago devised a plan that might or might not work... Of course it's a moot point since I never win.
Set up trusts for the kids, trust to live off, account for whatever expenses, retirement (as I won't get to retire till about 8 years after I"m cremated), fund to work on paying off any debt (like the house). look at building another house,...
I'd keep working. I like those I work with to much. Maybe sub-hire someone so I can take a weekend off here or there.....Like now when I'm hearing a load of stomping and screaming from upstairs - my guess is someone is playing XBox...
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My plan would be to invest it all, wait a year, then start living off of a good chunk of the annual dividends. Always with some going back in for growth so that it is always more each year, even if only a little more. That way you are always gaining, no matter what.
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@scottalanmiller said:
My plan would be to invest it all, wait a year, then start living off of a good chunk of the annual dividends. Always with some going back in for growth so that it is always more each year, even if only a little more. That way you are always gaining, no matter what.
That is my basic plan for any lump sum of money I ever happen to get. I would add pay off all debt first though, otherwise the dividends are will not accumulate as quickly since you will need to use more of them.
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@JaredBusch said:
@scottalanmiller said:
My plan would be to invest it all, wait a year, then start living off of a good chunk of the annual dividends. Always with some going back in for growth so that it is always more each year, even if only a little more. That way you are always gaining, no matter what.
That is my basic plan for any lump sum of money I ever happen to get. I would add pay off all debt first though, otherwise the dividends are will not accumulate as quickly since you will need to use more of them.
Well yes, I'm assuming my current debts are a trivial amount compared to the lump sum. I'd have a big celebratory dinner too. Buy a few extra Steam games. but nothing that you'd notice.
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@JaredBusch said:
@scottalanmiller said:
My plan would be to invest it all, wait a year, then start living off of a good chunk of the annual dividends. Always with some going back in for growth so that it is always more each year, even if only a little more. That way you are always gaining, no matter what.
That is my basic plan for any lump sum of money I ever happen to get. I would add pay off all debt first though, otherwise the dividends are will not accumulate as quickly since you will need to use more of them.
So, I guess it would work out like this.
- Find a good lawyer and financial consultant that I will trust.
- Use step 1 resources to create a trust(s) to contain all the funds.
- Put all of said money into ownership of the trust.
- Withdraw enough to pay off debt (car is all I have now, but planning on a house this spring)
- Invest the rest of the money into various funds recommended by person from step 1.
- Continue life as normal until dividends start coming in.
- Decide what to do with said dividends the first year and reinvest as much as possible.
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$5mil CDN (we do not pay tax on winnings)
Take out 1mil, purchase land / house / vehicles / vacation. Get it out of my system.
Invest 4mil, live comfortably on the interest (5% return gets you 200k/yr which is $100k/yr after tax. Very comfy)
$5mil - 50mil
As above, but invest 40mil.
Take 9mil and create scholarships, fully funded soup kitchens, library for kids who don't read gooder, maker spaces. That kinda thing.
Pay for all the school my 3 close friends have taken - books, tuition, all of it.
Setup scholarships for my 3 close friends kids (2 each) if they should have any. If unused it returns to the community scholarship funds.
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@JaredBusch said:
@JaredBusch said:
@scottalanmiller said:
My plan would be to invest it all, wait a year, then start living off of a good chunk of the annual dividends. Always with some going back in for growth so that it is always more each year, even if only a little more. That way you are always gaining, no matter what.
That is my basic plan for any lump sum of money I ever happen to get. I would add pay off all debt first though, otherwise the dividends are will not accumulate as quickly since you will need to use more of them.
So, I guess it would work out like this.
- Find a good lawyer and financial consultant that I will trust.
- Use step 1 resources to create a trust(s) to contain all the funds.
- Put all of said money into ownership of the trust.
- Withdraw enough to pay off debt (car is all I have now, but planning on a house this spring)
- Invest the rest of the money into various funds recommended by person from step 1.
- Continue life as normal until dividends start coming in.
- Decide what to do with said dividends the first year and reinvest as much as possible.
If you passed the money on to others after you died (Kids, family members, friends, etc) that all thought the same way, seems like generations of people could live without money troubles.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@JaredBusch said:
@scottalanmiller said:
My plan would be to invest it all, wait a year, then start living off of a good chunk of the annual dividends. Always with some going back in for growth so that it is always more each year, even if only a little more. That way you are always gaining, no matter what.
That is my basic plan for any lump sum of money I ever happen to get. I would add pay off all debt first though, otherwise the dividends are will not accumulate as quickly since you will need to use more of them.
Well yes, I'm assuming my current debts are a trivial amount compared to the lump sum. I'd have a big celebratory dinner too. Buy a few extra Steam games. but nothing that you'd notice.
I would "get it out of my system" as @MattSpeller said by maxing my credit card $18k limit I think. There is normally a revolving $2k on there, so I should be able to have enough fun on $16k. That is my self determined limit for celebratory things with any influx of cash. So it is then paid off when I hit step 4.
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@MattSpeller said:
$5mil CDN (we do not pay tax on winnings)
Take out 1mil, purchase land / house / vehicles / vacation. Get it out of my system.
Invest 4mil, live comfortably on the interest (5% return gets you 200k/yr which is $100k/yr after tax. Very comfy)
$5mil - 50mil
As above, but invest 40mil.
Take 9mil and create scholarships, fully funded soup kitchens, library for kids who don't read gooder, maker spaces. That kinda thing.
Pay for all the school my 3 close friends have taken - books, tuition, all of it.
Setup scholarships for my 3 close friends kids (2 each) if they should have any. If unused it returns to the community scholarship funds.
Think I'd have to get it out of my system too. Wouldn't want to be reckless but if $5mil suddenly showed up in my bank account I'd have to do some splurging after debt was gone. Wouldn't mind a new car, truck, house and a few gadgets.
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@JaredBusch said:
I would "get it out of my system" as @MattSpeller said by maxing my credit card $18k limit I think. There is normally a revolving $2k on there, so I should be able to have enough fun on $16k. That is my self determined limit for celebratory things with any influx of cash. So it is then paid off when I hit step 4.
I don't have a credit card, and no interest / need to get one. I have been without one for a few years... and it has been nice.
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@quicky2g said:
@JaredBusch said:
@JaredBusch said:
@scottalanmiller said:
My plan would be to invest it all, wait a year, then start living off of a good chunk of the annual dividends. Always with some going back in for growth so that it is always more each year, even if only a little more. That way you are always gaining, no matter what.
That is my basic plan for any lump sum of money I ever happen to get. I would add pay off all debt first though, otherwise the dividends are will not accumulate as quickly since you will need to use more of them.
So, I guess it would work out like this.
- Find a good lawyer and financial consultant that I will trust.
- Use step 1 resources to create a trust(s) to contain all the funds.
- Put all of said money into ownership of the trust.
- Withdraw enough to pay off debt (car is all I have now, but planning on a house this spring)
- Invest the rest of the money into various funds recommended by person from step 1.
- Continue life as normal until dividends start coming in.
- Decide what to do with said dividends the first year and reinvest as much as possible.
If you passed the money on to others after you died (Kids, family members, friends, etc) that all thought the same way, seems like generations of people could live without money troubles.
That is the point of putting the money into ownership of a trust. As I am not a financial person, I have probably used the wrong term there. But the point is that the money is not mine. It belongs to the trust and there are rules established for it's use. And it will outlive any person.
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@gjacobse said:
@JaredBusch said:
I would "get it out of my system" as @MattSpeller said by maxing my credit card $18k limit I think. There is normally a revolving $2k on there, so I should be able to have enough fun on $16k. That is my self determined limit for celebratory things with any influx of cash. So it is then paid off when I hit step 4.
I don't have a credit card, and no interest / need to get one. I have been without one for a few years... and it has been nice.
I need to spend a little time looking at card offers and get a new one. Mileage cards are not worth as much as the used to be.
The point of a credit card is to use it. The banks want you to use and and not pay it off so they can get the interest. I don't do that. I use it as another source of (limited) income. Since 2007 I have not paid for a single flight to Japan for myself as I have been able to purchase them on rewards from the card point program. Not earned enough to buy 4 to take everyone, but still buying 3 tickets instead of 4 is a good thing.
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If I had gobs of money and needed an outlet, I'd probably buy investments that I found "fun" like restaurants, bars and real estate.
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@scottalanmiller said:
If I had gobs of money and needed an outlet, I'd probably buy investments that I found "fun" like restaurants, bars and real estate.
Completely agree. I wouldn't mind owning a Chipotle so I could eat there for free.
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You guys get taxed on your winnings?
