Indoctrination into Islam?
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@coliver said:
Am I reading this correctly... this was in a world religion class?
Couldn't tell if it was a class on that, or something like social studies as the "course" and the topic of world religions for the "class." But yes, basically.
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Welcome to America, where even talking about the handwriting of world religions is so awful that we have to shut schools down.
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I'm not sure I see what the problem is? They are teaching world religions and Islam is a massive one, seems like the teacher did her job.
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@coliver said:
I'm not sure I see what the problem is? They are teaching world religions and Islam is a massive one, seems like the teacher did her job.
But in Virginia, you see.
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People are so dumb. If you have a problem with what the school/s are teaching take your kid out and homeschool them or something.
We are what most people consider VERY conservative Christians and we did homeschool. But our son was taught world religions. Pretty much all of them. Nothing wrong with that. We do live in the world after all...
People are so weird.
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@scottalanmiller said:
Doesn't seem weird at all. Learning about world religions is standard education all over the world, even in the US. And the point of the assignment was to learn a little about the calligraphy practices often associated with Islam. If anything, it seems like they were taking an extremely cursory approach trying to focus on the art of the religion rather than more core topics.
It is very important for the understanding the art of the Arab and related world (like Spain) to understand how Catholic iconography and Islamic disallowance of iconography influenced the two regions artistically and culturally.
Right. However, in a public school system, you don't use things that can be translated as doctrinal statements. I would expect the same reaction if somebody were made to write in any language that "Jesus is the only begotten son of God"
Yes: That is a core value of the Christian Faith. But if you want to show off the calligraphy, why not use something that is not so heavily focused at the core of whatever religion. Perhaps something out of Proverbs...
Let not mercy and truth forsake you; Bind them around your neck, Write them on the tablet of your heart... (Proverbs 3:3, if you are interested)...
vs
"There is no God but Allah and Mohammed is the messenger of Allah"
Which one sounds like pure indoctrination?
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That's not to say I'm against teaching about other cultures. This day in age, that is absolutely necessary... However, in the public school systems, religion is not supposed to be pushed. Things like "Jesus Christ is Lord" and "There is no got but Allah" are topics to be discussed in class, not to be turned into assignments.
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Oh I didn't read all the way
yeah writing a religious statement like that would be a bit of an issue for most people. -
@dafyre said:
Right. However, in a public school system, you don't use things that can be translated as doctrinal statements. I would expect the same reaction if somebody were made to write in any language that "Jesus is the only begotten son of God"
As soon as the pledge of Allegiance is outlawed, I'll believe that one. Doctrinal statements have long been a staple of the American public school system
Both political and religious.I see the point, they could have had them write something random. Although if you were studying Christianity and didn't have to study the religious bits, would it be a study of Christianity?
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@dafyre said:
That's not to say I'm against teaching about other cultures. This day in age, that is absolutely necessary... However, in the public school systems, religion is not supposed to be pushed. Things like "Jesus Christ is Lord" and "There is no got but Allah" are topics to be discussed in class, not to be turned into assignments.
What makes one thing okay for class and a different for an assignment? How do you decide which is more one thing and which one more the other, and even what spectrum are we thinking they slide on?
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Why write something random though, and lets be fair any statement out of the Quran would have gotten equal ire from the people who are complaining. This phrase is commonly taught to Islamic youths so it seems like it would make sense and fit with what the class is supposed to be teaching.
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So if there was homework that asked "What is the core statement of Islamic faith" and students had to fill in the blank, which as I remember is a common way to do homework, that wouldn't be okay because the question asked something that required writing down words that people didn't support?
If you were to make this about Christianity you'd be mostly unable to ask anything meaningful or learn anything about it if you couldn't talk about bits like, you know, Jesus.
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@coliver said:
Why write something random though, and lets be fair any statement out of the Quran would have gotten equal ire from the people who are complaining. This phrase is commonly taught to Islamic youths so it seems like it would make sense and fit with what the class is supposed to be teaching.
I lean this way. Using something random would not have solved anything here nor would it have taught quite as well. Unlike most religions, Islam has this clear, repeated statement. It's hard to understand or study Islam without it.
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@scottalanmiller said:
As soon as the pledge of Allegiance is outlawed, I'll believe that one. Doctrinal statements have long been a staple of the American public school system
Both political and religious.The pledge of allergiance has been dropped from pretty much all public schools that I'm aware of. The last time I did it (during my schooling) was in the 5th grade.
Does anyone here have any kids that can answer if it is still performed daily?
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@DustinB3403 said:
@scottalanmiller said:
As soon as the pledge of Allegiance is outlawed, I'll believe that one. Doctrinal statements have long been a staple of the American public school system
Both political and religious.The pledge of allergiance has been dropped from pretty much all public schools that I'm aware of. The last time I did it (during my schooling) was in the 5th grade.
Does anyone here have any kids that can answer if it is still performed daily?
Worked in an area high school. It was still recited on a daily basis. Although from what I saw there were few young adults who actually paid any attention to it.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@dafyre said:
Right. However, in a public school system, you don't use things that can be translated as doctrinal statements. I would expect the same reaction if somebody were made to write in any language that "Jesus is the only begotten son of God"
As soon as the pledge of Allegiance is outlawed, I'll believe that one. Doctrinal statements have long been a staple of the American public school system
Both political and religious.I see the point, they could have had them write something random. Although if you were studying Christianity and didn't have to study the religious bits, would it be a study of Christianity?
I disagree with the banning of the pledge of allegiance... (but does anybody really even do that anymore anyway?).. In my mind, the Pledge of Allegiance shows support for our country and its people (not the politicians that run it!)
In a public school setting, I have no problem with the teachers doing a side by side of the world religions. I have no problem with them discussing the topic in class. I have no problem with them asking a student what they believe and why...
But ti give them an assignment that says "copy this statement" should be generic, and not overtly doctrinal... (See my last post on Proverbs vs the Islamic Statement of Faith)
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Let me see if I can make an analogy to Catholicism...
This would require a different kind of art class, of course, but see if this makes sense.
In a class about world religions while studying the art and influence of Catholicism the class gets a famous work of art depicting the Virgin Mary. The homework assignment is to roughly copy the painting (this is where it is harder) to understand the iconography of the religion.
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@DustinB3403 said:
@scottalanmiller said:
As soon as the pledge of Allegiance is outlawed, I'll believe that one. Doctrinal statements have long been a staple of the American public school system
Both political and religious.The pledge of allergiance has been dropped from pretty much all public schools that I'm aware of. The last time I did it (during my schooling) was in the 5th grade.
Does anyone here have any kids that can answer if it is still performed daily?
Asking kids in Texas right now.
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@dafyre said:
I disagree with the banning of the pledge of allegiance... (but does anybody really even do that anymore anyway?).. In my mind, the Pledge of Allegiance shows support for our country and its people (not the politicians that run it!)
It's not support, it's a pledge of obedience. It's indoctrination. And it is "one nation, under God."
It's indoctrination, it's religion, is fascism. It's everything we fear in the Islamic statement but not just a statement of what "is" but a vow to obey and submit to it!! The pledge is dramatically more indoctrinating. It's a whole different scale.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@dafyre said:
I disagree with the banning of the pledge of allegiance... (but does anybody really even do that anymore anyway?).. In my mind, the Pledge of Allegiance shows support for our country and its people (not the politicians that run it!)
It's not support, it's a pledge of obedience. It's indoctrination. And it is "one nation, under God."
It's indoctrination, it's religion, is fascism. It's everything we fear in the Islamic statement but not just a statement of what "is" but a vow to obey and submit to it!! The pledge is dramatically more indoctrinating. It's a whole different scale.
Ha ha ha. You do have a point. I take back my previous statement.
