Math Exercise User Training vs Cost of Good Security and BDR Plan
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@Breffni-Potter said:
@scottalanmiller said:
I think it is an unhealthy thing in IT that we feel that everyone should be "passing through" rather than finding where they are good and what makes them happy.
But once your skills/knowledge out grows the environment you are in and it is impossible for you to get that extra needed challenge which you crave, surely that pushes you to move on then?
No, that's not what studies in business have shown after decades of research. Quite the opposite. Once you hit your level of competence, going beyond that results in failure and frustration.
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@scottalanmiller said:
No, that's not what studies in business have shown after decades of research. Quite the opposite. Once you hit your level of competence, going beyond that results in failure and frustration.
But what I'm trying to say is if you could have someone who was at say...level 8 for competence out of 10, or level 5 out of 10 but they'll stay for quite a few years because they have reached their limit, will 5 outperform 8 in a single year?
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@Breffni-Potter said:
http://mangolassi.it/topic/6514/what-is-your-educational-goal/31
Does the fact you had 40 jobs in 7 years make you a worse candidate than someone at the same job for 3-5 years? Albeit a consultant job there is definite benefits to someone pushing rather than someone who is stagnant/stuck.
No, the fact that I was a consultant does not imply that. That someone has changed jobs is totally different from hiring someone passing through versus someone looking to do this job. Completely different concepts.
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@Breffni-Potter said:
But what I'm trying to say is if you could have someone who was at say...level 8 for competence out of 10, or level 5 out of 10 but they'll stay for quite a few years because they have reached their limit, will 5 outperform 8 in a single year?
That's a very uncommon scenario. In many cases, yes the 5 is better. If the reasons are what I stated. If you look solely at factors other than the ones in question, then the pure factor of competence would favor the 8 over the 5. But if the 5 is happy and a long term investment and the 8 is good but unhappy and immediately trying to move on, the 8 won't likely do you much good.
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@Dashrender said:
I've know tons of people who have worked on a help desk, but only a rare few who actually like it and wanted to continue doing it.
I'm one of those... but I also have to pay the bills, and sadly, a helpdesk job isn't going to do that.
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@dafyre said:
@Dashrender said:
I've know tons of people who have worked on a help desk, but only a rare few who actually like it and wanted to continue doing it.
I'm one of those... but I also have to pay the bills, and sadly, a helpdesk job isn't going to do that.
I've known some that were pretty good. You generally end up being an L3 HD or a lead and only some companies will be able to support that, but it happens. I've known $80K+ helpdesk people.
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@dafyre said:
@Dashrender said:
I've know tons of people who have worked on a help desk, but only a rare few who actually like it and wanted to continue doing it.
I'm one of those... but I also have to pay the bills, and sadly, a helpdesk job isn't going to do that.
This is probably because we undervalue good helpdesk personal. Probably most important skill on a helpdesk is people skills (something I'm horrible at). If you have that, the technical can come.
I wonder why more companies don't value their helpdesk personal, typically not paying them more than $30-35K/yr basically forcing those people into possibly uncomfortable roles of IT in order to make more money but not be as good for the company?
Is it because there are always an influx of new noobs to work on the helpdesk and this is somehow OK?
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@Dashrender said:
This is probably because we undervalue good helpdesk personal. Probably most important skill on a helpdesk is people skills (something I'm horrible at). If you have that, the technical can come.
Absolutely. Good helpdesks rarely hire for many tech skills. Those all need to be unique to the situation anyway. It is very much a people job.
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@Dashrender said:
Is it because there are always an influx of new noobs to work on the helpdesk and this is somehow OK?
I think that it is because the rest of IT look at helpdesk as a stepping stone and treat it with disdain and create a culture of it being a place to just pass through combined with management not stepping in and putting a priority on it because they see it as a waste of energy hand holding useless employees.
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@Dashrender said:
I wonder why more companies don't value their helpdesk personal, typically not paying them more than $30-35K/yr basically forcing those people into possibly uncomfortable roles of IT in order to make more money but not be as good for the company?
No idea. HD is often the face of IT and can alone change an IT department from hated to loved.
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@scottalanmiller said:
I think that it is because the rest of IT look at helpdesk as a stepping stone and treat it with disdain and create a culture of it being a place to just pass through combined with management not stepping in and putting a priority on it because they see it as a waste of energy hand holding useless employees.
I definitely see that - personally I truly dislike the phone. If my tickets all come in via ticket system/email whatever it's usually a little better (depending on the environment).
My current situation I guess one would consider high stress with no time to wait. The patient care personal are instantly defensive once things aren't going as planned. They have no patience for getting it solved and consider a waste of their time to even try to fix something themselves, or even be involved in the fix.
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Might be a good idea to break out these HD conversations into their own thread.
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@Dashrender said:
Might be a good idea to break out these HD conversations into their own thread.
Go ahead and make a new one. I think most of what is here should stay as it relates to the discussion at hand. But a new one would be good.
