Dicussion about time, DST and businesses hours of operation



  • @scottalanmiller and I are discussing the pointlessness of DST, but also why it was originally put in place.



  • It's a huge waste of effort in modern society. What have you two already discussed?

    If I could I would simply ignore it, and leave all of my clocks set how they are.



  • It drives me crazy. I work with team members and customers all over the world. I am always having to look up what local time is somewhere as I can never keep track. Just leave it alone!



  • I've was told it was for farming and agriculture so as to better make use of daylight... now if that is true or just American propaganda I don't know.

    Agreed though it is a huge waste of time and can cause all kinds of undue issues with international businesses and partners... even ones across the US.



  • I claim the original purpose of DST was whale oil savings. People would be awake/preparing for work closer to sunrise allowing for the reduced use of a fairly rare resource. As such changing something, either the time itself or the hours of operation completely made sense.

    So this leads me to an inquiry, which would have really be better: Changing the clocks so people always go to work 8-5 or changing the hours of operation from 8-5 to 9-6?


  • Service Provider

    @DustinB3403 said:

    It's a huge waste of effort in modern society. What have you two already discussed?

    I believe that it was always terrible. It's always been costly to implement, caused problems with businesses that did not work via the clock (agriculture which was by far the largest part of the economy) and was based on the assumption that businesses had to work 9-5 or whatever instead of setting their own hours. But most businesses work on the sun, not the clock (agriculture) and any that support them and the others can open anytime that they want so there was no need for it, ever.


  • Service Provider

    @Minion-Queen said:

    It drives me crazy. I work with team members and customers all over the world. I am always having to look up what local time is somewhere as I can never keep track. Just leave it alone!

    And the US and Europe go in and out of DST at different times and much of the world doesn't have it at all. It's escalated from cumbersome to insane under the Bush era changes in the US.


  • Service Provider

    @coliver said:

    I've was told it was for farming and agriculture so as to better make use of daylight... now if that is true or just American propaganda I don't know.

    Can't affect them, it was only for non-agriculture to make better use of daylight. But since those people set their own schedules, it doesn't affect them either.


  • Service Provider

    @DustinB3403 said:

    If I could I would simply ignore it, and leave all of my clocks set how they are.

    Just move your life to UTC.



  • Assuming it was based around the use of energy resources, to me it made sense for the time. Clearly considering our energy resources are considerably different today, it no longer makes any sense at all.



  • @scottalanmiller said:

    @DustinB3403 said:

    If I could I would simply ignore it, and leave all of my clocks set how they are.

    Just move your life to UTC.

    I'd have to get my employer to move to UTC as well.


  • Service Provider

    Congress claims that it saved energy in 1973. If it does, why not move to it year round? That we only do it part of the year leads me to question all of it...

    http://www.timeanddate.com/time/dst/history.html



  • @scottalanmiller also suggested that most businesses today work at the wrong time. Instead of factories being open during the day, they should be running at night, when it's less expensive to cool them in the summers.

    I think social push back would be the main reason this isn't the case, not to mention normal human body cycles, our bodies want to be awake during the sun up time of day.


  • Service Provider

    @Dashrender said:

    @scottalanmiller also suggested that most businesses today work at the wrong time. Instead of factories being open during the day, they should be running at night, when it's less expensive to cool them in the summers.

    I think social push back would be the main reason this isn't the case, not to mention normal human body cycles, our bodies want to be awake during the sun up time of day.

    Exactly. if this truly saved money, why would any business operate at a different time than the one that saves the most money? This implies that congress knows how to save money and can do so as a single law while individual businesses can't figure out how to make money and adjusting individually as to their own needs doesn't work.



  • @Dashrender said:

    @scottalanmiller also suggested that most businesses today work at the wrong time. Instead of factories being open during the day, they should be running at night, when it's less expensive to cool them in the summers.

    I think social push back would be the main reason this isn't the case, not to mention normal human body cycles, our bodies want to be awake during the sun up time of day.

    No arguments with either point here. It would make so much more sense to do manufacturing at night when electrical costs would be lower. Would ancillary businesses also need to change their hours?



  • @scottalanmiller said:

    @coliver said:

    I've was told it was for farming and agriculture so as to better make use of daylight... now if that is true or just American propaganda I don't know.

    Can't affect them, it was only for non-agriculture to make better use of daylight. But since those people set their own schedules, it doesn't affect them either.

    What about societal norms. If all businesses just chose random times that they wanted to be open it would be mad chaos.



  • @Dashrender said:

    @scottalanmiller said:

    @coliver said:

    I've was told it was for farming and agriculture so as to better make use of daylight... now if that is true or just American propaganda I don't know.

    Can't affect them, it was only for non-agriculture to make better use of daylight. But since those people set their own schedules, it doesn't affect them either.

    What about societal norms. If all businesses just chose random times that they wanted to be open it would be mad chaos.

    Not really. There are only a few businesses that don't rely on others to open. Every other one would need to be open/closed to match with the businesses and people they support. Especially in the US.



  • That's definitely true, most businesses rely other others, and would find a way to sync up.

    and of course the government would have to sync up with these as well. Think about a situation where businesses change from the typical 8-5 and move to 9-6 or even 10-7. Now you're completely out of sync with the post office and schools.



  • Business operating hours is not in the least effected by Day Light Savings. In terms of customer hours.

    Customers will continue to do the normal "daylight shopping" (and I use that vaguely). Manufacturing companies for example, many of which I know personally having worked for a rather large one operate 24/7.

    Customers will still purchase items when they have the need for an item. Either an online order via email or a direct "in store" purchase.

    Client visits would continue during "normal business hours" which means "daylight hours of operation".


  • Service Provider

    @coliver said:

    @Dashrender said:

    @scottalanmiller also suggested that most businesses today work at the wrong time. Instead of factories being open during the day, they should be running at night, when it's less expensive to cool them in the summers.

    I think social push back would be the main reason this isn't the case, not to mention normal human body cycles, our bodies want to be awake during the sun up time of day.

    No arguments with either point here. It would make so much more sense to do manufacturing at night when electrical costs would be lower. Would ancillary businesses also need to change their hours?

    Maybe, but it is cheaper for nearly everyone to work at night. Daytime in the US is the most expensive. Especially now with batteries to store power and LED lights.


  • Banned

    @coliver said:

    No arguments with either point here. It would make so much more sense to do manufacturing at night when electrical costs would be lower. Would ancillary businesses also need to change their hours?

    Cool Manufactoring? We don't cool it. Neither do most big manufacturing companies.


  • Service Provider

    @coliver said:

    @Dashrender said:

    @scottalanmiller said:

    @coliver said:

    I've was told it was for farming and agriculture so as to better make use of daylight... now if that is true or just American propaganda I don't know.

    Can't affect them, it was only for non-agriculture to make better use of daylight. But since those people set their own schedules, it doesn't affect them either.

    What about societal norms. If all businesses just chose random times that they wanted to be open it would be mad chaos.

    Not really. There are only a few businesses that don't rely on others to open. Every other one would need to be open/closed to match with the businesses and people they support. Especially in the US.

    Actually in many cases being open at the same time is an issue. Being open staggered would often be better.



  • @Jason said:

    @coliver said:

    No arguments with either point here. It would make so much more sense to do manufacturing at night when electrical costs would be lower. Would ancillary businesses also need to change their hours?

    Cool Manufactoring? We don't cool it. Neither do most big manufacturing companies.

    I didn't mean cool. I meant the cost of electricity would be much less expensive for equipment.


  • Service Provider

    @Dashrender said:

    That's definitely true, most businesses rely other others, and would find a way to sync up.

    and of course the government would have to sync up with these as well. Think about a situation where businesses change from the typical 8-5 and move to 9-6 or even 10-7. Now you're completely out of sync with the post office and schools.

    But they equally, I think, rely on being staggered as simultaneous. It causes a LOT of issues when everyone works at the same time. How do restaurants, shops, etc. work?


  • Banned

    @coliver said:

    @Jason said:

    @coliver said:

    No arguments with either point here. It would make so much more sense to do manufacturing at night when electrical costs would be lower. Would ancillary businesses also need to change their hours?

    Cool Manufactoring? We don't cool it. Neither do most big manufacturing companies.

    I didn't mean cool. I meant the cost of electricity would be much less expensive for equipment.

    Ahh @scottalanmiller said cool. Power costs the same no matter the time of day for us.


  • Service Provider

    Much of the US has flexible power costs. DST pushed everyone to use the most expensive power. It makes big money for the power grids.


  • Service Provider

    Why do companies run lights like they do when people use computers all day and the lights cause eye strain anyway? That's crazy. Every business I know of any size runs as many lights during the day as at night. We need to fix THAT instead.



  • @scottalanmiller said:

    Why do companies run lights like they do when people use computers all day and the lights cause eye strain anyway? That's crazy. Every business I know of any size runs as many lights during the day as at night. We need to fix THAT instead.

    This I don't understand. Especially in states (like NY) that are starting to require natural lighting for employee offices.


  • Service Provider

    @coliver said:

    @scottalanmiller said:

    Why do companies run lights like they do when people use computers all day and the lights cause eye strain anyway? That's crazy. Every business I know of any size runs as many lights during the day as at night. We need to fix THAT instead.

    This I don't understand. Especially in states (like NY) that are starting to require natural lighting for employee offices.

    Yeah, it's crazy. Let's waste money producing unneeded light and heat and shining that light directly into the eyes of people working on computers who already have plenty of light from the sun and now are squinting and getting huge eye strain just to waste money on power and make them less productive.


  • Service Provider

    DST has been shown to have major health implications too. It stresses the human body to attempt to shift by an hour twice a year. Not huge, but across a large population it is very measurable. It increases sick time, makes people late for work... DST creates a huge cascade of issues that people are not addressing.


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