Barcelona Mayor Threatens the Great Firewall of Catalonia to Fight AirBnB
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@Carnival-Boy said:
You seem to be ranting about different things and I'm not sure which one I'm being blind to? Why are you singling out the mayor? I don't know what she is responsible for and what the Catalan government is responsible for, but how can the mayor of a city ban internet access in an entire region?
Presumably because the access to it travels through the city. That would be my guess. Maybe she can't, but threatening to break the law is still a problem. What if the US government threatened to enact martial law in the UK? That we don't have the right to invade should make no difference to British citizens being pissed off that they are threatening them, right?
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At least Catalonia has admitted, according to the WSJ, that they don't have the right to block the site:
One has to ask how they have the power to fine them, either. AirBnB does not operate there at all, what jurisdiction does Catalonia have? It'll be interesting to see how EU law applies here. And US law. What if someone offered an apartment through any other website, like here, for example? Is it illegal to have a website where someone offers something for sale? Even if the site has no operations in the place where the person is posting? What gives Catalonia any authority there?
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But the Catalan response is last year. The new threats from Barcelona, not Catalonia, are new, presumably.
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@scottalanmiller said:
The new threats from Barcelona, not Catalonia, are new, presumably.
Or they don't exist and that article is talking bollocks.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
Or they don't exist and that article is talking bollocks.
Possibly. One would hope that they would make a statement or take legal action in the case of liable.
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Cataluña recently (last month) changed their stance on AirBnB from 2014 and it is very legal there now: http://novobrief.com/airbnb-legal-in-cataluna-barcelona/
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Another site echoes the quotes from the press conference: http://www.tenantstogether.org/article.php?id=3777
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Telegraph reported that AirBnB requires the people using it to pay all of the necessary taxes: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/spain/11701684/Spains-Airbnb-style-listings-outnumber-hotel-beds-says-report.html
There are no untaxed apartments on AirBnB. If local people are breaking the law, that's nothing to do with AirBnB or similar services. They are not the tax collectors.
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A lot of outlets are reporting that the mayor plans to tax AirBnB... that's double taxing. They want to get the taxes for the service AND tax a foreign entity just for being the coordinator. Maybe they can do it legally, maybe not, but the bottom line is they want to get taxes from an American company when they've been apparently neglecting to collect taxes that are in their jurisdiction.
Does Spain or the EU allow municipalities to tax foreign entities without national or EU oversight? That seems very odd. In the US, you cannot tax or impose a duty on a foreign country as a municipality or even as a state.
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@scottalanmiller said:
In the US, you can tax or impose a duty on a foreign country as a municipality or even as a state.
Can or cannot. you imply not, but say can.
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@JaredBusch said:
@scottalanmiller said:
In the US, you can tax or impose a duty on a foreign country as a municipality or even as a state.
Can or cannot. you imply not, but say can.
Oops, meant cannot. Only the fed can tax commerce from outside a state.
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@scottalanmiller said:
A lot of outlets are reporting that the mayor plans to tax AirBnB... that's double taxing. They want to get the taxes for the service AND tax a foreign entity just for being the coordinator. Maybe they can do it legally, maybe not, but the bottom line is they want to get taxes from an American company when they've been apparently neglecting to collect taxes that are in their jurisdiction.
Does Spain or the EU allow municipalities to tax foreign entities without national or EU oversight? That seems very odd. In the US, you cannot tax or impose a duty on a foreign country as a municipality or even as a state.
Where did you read that? I can't believe that could be possible.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
@scottalanmiller said:
A lot of outlets are reporting that the mayor plans to tax AirBnB... that's double taxing. They want to get the taxes for the service AND tax a foreign entity just for being the coordinator. Maybe they can do it legally, maybe not, but the bottom line is they want to get taxes from an American company when they've been apparently neglecting to collect taxes that are in their jurisdiction.
Does Spain or the EU allow municipalities to tax foreign entities without national or EU oversight? That seems very odd. In the US, you cannot tax or impose a duty on a foreign country as a municipality or even as a state.
Where did you read that? I can't believe that could be possible.
One of the ones that I linked.
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Which one? What did it say?
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It mentioned taxing AirBnB and Booking.com. The rentals themselves have always been subject to taxes and both the city and AirBnB have required that the taxes always be paid.
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OK, I must have missed that bit. I'm no tax expert but I didn't think local government could tax foreign transactions - I thought tax was always geographical. So only the landlord or the tenant should have to pay any tax.
AirBnB can, and do, collect local taxes on behalf of the landlord/tenant, and that's part of their role as an agent. No different from any other travel agent collecting tourist taxes or airport taxes. But they're just collecting tax on others behalf in their role as an agent. Taxing AirBnB directly seems weird to me.
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Anyway, the main thing is, the mayor clearly isn't going to block internet access, so are you happy about her now?
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@Carnival-Boy said:
OK, I must have missed that bit. I'm no tax expert but I didn't think local government could tax foreign transactions - I thought tax was always geographical. So only the landlord or the tenant should have to pay any tax.
That's my understanding but I really don't know European or Spanish tax law. Sucks that they have a tax law on the books and are failing to collect and trying to blame US companies for local tax collection issues though. They need to deal with their own local issues first, that alone would likely fix most of this.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
Anyway, the main thing is, the mayor clearly isn't going to block internet access, so are you happy about her now?
No, even if she can't carry out her threats, making them or intending to be evil is still a horrible thing. Just because we have to rely on the law to protect us from an unethical politician doesn't make that politician good. Introducing fear to coerce the populace itself is a horrible thing. Thankfully we think she cannot carry it out, thank you EU rationality, but we should not have to depend on EU federalism to step in to shut down a rogue state.
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I totally appreciate and support the desire to curb short stay, low rate, non-cultural tourists to the city. But nothing here appears to be that. Her words as to what she claims her goals are sound good, but her actions don't appear to be supporting that.
There is likely going to be a rash of bankruptcies in Barcelona as residents discover that they no longer have a cushion for covering the cost of their apartments.
