Barcelona Mayor Threatens the Great Firewall of Catalonia to Fight AirBnB
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@scottalanmiller said:
It's shocking how blind everyone is to this.
Blind to what exactly? You seem to be basing everything on a single article that doesn't quote the new mayor or any of her government officials, apart from in relation to social housing.
What are exactly are you upset about? Catalonia banning unlicensed apartments (which is identical to New York, I believe and is nothing to do with the current mayor)? Catalonia threatening to block access to Airbnb's websites (which was a threat by the previous mayor, not this one)? Or Catalonia trying get more social housing (which as far as I can tell, is the only complaint that can be directed towards the current mayor/government)?
You seem to be ranting about different things and I'm not sure which one I'm being blind to? Why are you singling out the mayor? I don't know what she is responsible for and what the Catalan government is responsible for, but how can the mayor of a city ban internet access in an entire region?
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@Carnival-Boy said:
What are exactly are you upset about? Catalonia banning unlicensed apartments (which is identical to New York, I believe and is nothing to do with the current mayor)? Catalonia threatening to block access to Airbnb's websites (which was a threat by the previous mayor, not this one)? Or Catalonia trying get more social housing (which as far as I can tell, is the only complaint that can be directed towards the current mayor/government)?
I thought that I made it very clear after the last time you asked me to clarify...
I am upset about attempting to gain illegal access to private data and threatening and/or attempting to get censorship of the people's Internet access. And way beyond that, trying to gain control of the rest of the region for whom she is not a politician at all.
I think that the mayor is likely corrupt and doing what she can to support the people who have bought her as her actions all seem to go against what she claims is the goal. But that's separate. That's up to Barcelona to decide how to try to fix their city. But breaching privacy, threatening innocent companies and determining the freedom of communications for both her city AND others for whom she is not a representative is unacceptable no matter why she is trying to do it.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
You seem to be ranting about different things and I'm not sure which one I'm being blind to? Why are you singling out the mayor? I don't know what she is responsible for and what the Catalan government is responsible for, but how can the mayor of a city ban internet access in an entire region?
Presumably because the access to it travels through the city. That would be my guess. Maybe she can't, but threatening to break the law is still a problem. What if the US government threatened to enact martial law in the UK? That we don't have the right to invade should make no difference to British citizens being pissed off that they are threatening them, right?
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At least Catalonia has admitted, according to the WSJ, that they don't have the right to block the site:
One has to ask how they have the power to fine them, either. AirBnB does not operate there at all, what jurisdiction does Catalonia have? It'll be interesting to see how EU law applies here. And US law. What if someone offered an apartment through any other website, like here, for example? Is it illegal to have a website where someone offers something for sale? Even if the site has no operations in the place where the person is posting? What gives Catalonia any authority there?
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But the Catalan response is last year. The new threats from Barcelona, not Catalonia, are new, presumably.
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@scottalanmiller said:
The new threats from Barcelona, not Catalonia, are new, presumably.
Or they don't exist and that article is talking bollocks.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
Or they don't exist and that article is talking bollocks.
Possibly. One would hope that they would make a statement or take legal action in the case of liable.
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Cataluña recently (last month) changed their stance on AirBnB from 2014 and it is very legal there now: http://novobrief.com/airbnb-legal-in-cataluna-barcelona/
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Another site echoes the quotes from the press conference: http://www.tenantstogether.org/article.php?id=3777
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Telegraph reported that AirBnB requires the people using it to pay all of the necessary taxes: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/spain/11701684/Spains-Airbnb-style-listings-outnumber-hotel-beds-says-report.html
There are no untaxed apartments on AirBnB. If local people are breaking the law, that's nothing to do with AirBnB or similar services. They are not the tax collectors.
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A lot of outlets are reporting that the mayor plans to tax AirBnB... that's double taxing. They want to get the taxes for the service AND tax a foreign entity just for being the coordinator. Maybe they can do it legally, maybe not, but the bottom line is they want to get taxes from an American company when they've been apparently neglecting to collect taxes that are in their jurisdiction.
Does Spain or the EU allow municipalities to tax foreign entities without national or EU oversight? That seems very odd. In the US, you cannot tax or impose a duty on a foreign country as a municipality or even as a state.
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@scottalanmiller said:
In the US, you can tax or impose a duty on a foreign country as a municipality or even as a state.
Can or cannot. you imply not, but say can.
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@JaredBusch said:
@scottalanmiller said:
In the US, you can tax or impose a duty on a foreign country as a municipality or even as a state.
Can or cannot. you imply not, but say can.
Oops, meant cannot. Only the fed can tax commerce from outside a state.
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@scottalanmiller said:
A lot of outlets are reporting that the mayor plans to tax AirBnB... that's double taxing. They want to get the taxes for the service AND tax a foreign entity just for being the coordinator. Maybe they can do it legally, maybe not, but the bottom line is they want to get taxes from an American company when they've been apparently neglecting to collect taxes that are in their jurisdiction.
Does Spain or the EU allow municipalities to tax foreign entities without national or EU oversight? That seems very odd. In the US, you cannot tax or impose a duty on a foreign country as a municipality or even as a state.
Where did you read that? I can't believe that could be possible.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
@scottalanmiller said:
A lot of outlets are reporting that the mayor plans to tax AirBnB... that's double taxing. They want to get the taxes for the service AND tax a foreign entity just for being the coordinator. Maybe they can do it legally, maybe not, but the bottom line is they want to get taxes from an American company when they've been apparently neglecting to collect taxes that are in their jurisdiction.
Does Spain or the EU allow municipalities to tax foreign entities without national or EU oversight? That seems very odd. In the US, you cannot tax or impose a duty on a foreign country as a municipality or even as a state.
Where did you read that? I can't believe that could be possible.
One of the ones that I linked.
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Which one? What did it say?
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It mentioned taxing AirBnB and Booking.com. The rentals themselves have always been subject to taxes and both the city and AirBnB have required that the taxes always be paid.
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OK, I must have missed that bit. I'm no tax expert but I didn't think local government could tax foreign transactions - I thought tax was always geographical. So only the landlord or the tenant should have to pay any tax.
AirBnB can, and do, collect local taxes on behalf of the landlord/tenant, and that's part of their role as an agent. No different from any other travel agent collecting tourist taxes or airport taxes. But they're just collecting tax on others behalf in their role as an agent. Taxing AirBnB directly seems weird to me.
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Anyway, the main thing is, the mayor clearly isn't going to block internet access, so are you happy about her now?
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@Carnival-Boy said:
OK, I must have missed that bit. I'm no tax expert but I didn't think local government could tax foreign transactions - I thought tax was always geographical. So only the landlord or the tenant should have to pay any tax.
That's my understanding but I really don't know European or Spanish tax law. Sucks that they have a tax law on the books and are failing to collect and trying to blame US companies for local tax collection issues though. They need to deal with their own local issues first, that alone would likely fix most of this.
