Non-IT News Thread
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@scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:
@dashrender said in Non-IT News Thread:
Uh - what? you think that any location should be able to just cede from the country they are currently part of if the local citizens vote to do so?
That's the general view of half of the US. They lost the war for that right, but it's the belief known as "state's rights."
yeah, and Texas is still a state why? They've been trying to leave since practically right after they joined.
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The question here, though, is if a nation has the right to decide if it will be sovereign or not. The question is - should sovereign nations exist where nations have chosen to be, or should "might make right" and whoever can conquor, does.
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@scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:
@dashrender said in Non-IT News Thread:
@nerdydad said in Non-IT News Thread:
@scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:
@dashrender said in Non-IT News Thread:
It's weird to me that you would expect the EU to get involved in what appears to be an internal conflict, at least as it pertains to currently understood country borders.
So if west Texas declared independence from Texas, do you think that the US should not be involved AND automatically revoke American citizenship for all of its people there - especially if they only left Texas and not the US? Or do you think that the US should be involved on things that happen within its borders and that affect its citizens?
This would depend on the wishes of the local government of that province. Do they want to become their own state or their own country? If they just want to become a state, Spain needs to honor their wishes and EU needs to condone it. If they want total sovereignty, then the EU needs to honor it and let them separate entirely.
Uh - what? you think that any location should be able to just cede from the country they are currently part of if the local citizens vote to do so?
I'm not saying I agree or disagree, just asking.
SHOULD they be able to? If we are just talking about things that are good and bad, then yes. That's how the US exists, that's how Canada exists, that's how all countries exist, really. At some point the locals decided they weren't willing to be a part of someone else controlling them. Otherwise, the US would be part of the UK, which would be a part of the Viking empire, which would be a part of Rome.
Yeah I get all that. I guess it just means it's time for more war assuming the old leaders aren't willing to let those who want to leave, leave.
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@dashrender said in Non-IT News Thread:
@scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:
@dashrender said in Non-IT News Thread:
Uh - what? you think that any location should be able to just cede from the country they are currently part of if the local citizens vote to do so?
That's the general view of half of the US. They lost the war for that right, but it's the belief known as "state's rights."
yeah, and Texas is still a state why? They've been trying to leave since practically right after they joined.
Right, and you are showing his point. Texas doesn't want to be in the US, it's there by force, not by choice. However, Texas joined voluntarily at the beginning and was never oppressed. Catalonia was 100% taken by force, heavily oppressed to the point of their own language being completely banned.
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@dashrender said in Non-IT News Thread:
@scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:
@dashrender said in Non-IT News Thread:
@nerdydad said in Non-IT News Thread:
@scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:
@dashrender said in Non-IT News Thread:
It's weird to me that you would expect the EU to get involved in what appears to be an internal conflict, at least as it pertains to currently understood country borders.
So if west Texas declared independence from Texas, do you think that the US should not be involved AND automatically revoke American citizenship for all of its people there - especially if they only left Texas and not the US? Or do you think that the US should be involved on things that happen within its borders and that affect its citizens?
This would depend on the wishes of the local government of that province. Do they want to become their own state or their own country? If they just want to become a state, Spain needs to honor their wishes and EU needs to condone it. If they want total sovereignty, then the EU needs to honor it and let them separate entirely.
Uh - what? you think that any location should be able to just cede from the country they are currently part of if the local citizens vote to do so?
I'm not saying I agree or disagree, just asking.
SHOULD they be able to? If we are just talking about things that are good and bad, then yes. That's how the US exists, that's how Canada exists, that's how all countries exist, really. At some point the locals decided they weren't willing to be a part of someone else controlling them. Otherwise, the US would be part of the UK, which would be a part of the Viking empire, which would be a part of Rome.
Yeah I get all that. I guess it just means it's time for more war, assuming the old leaders aren't willing to let those who want to leave, go.
That's a key reason why wars exist - because some people don't believe that nations should get to make their own choices.
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That and women, always wars over women.
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@scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:
@dashrender said in Non-IT News Thread:
@scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:
@dashrender said in Non-IT News Thread:
@nerdydad said in Non-IT News Thread:
@scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:
@dashrender said in Non-IT News Thread:
It's weird to me that you would expect the EU to get involved in what appears to be an internal conflict, at least as it pertains to currently understood country borders.
So if west Texas declared independence from Texas, do you think that the US should not be involved AND automatically revoke American citizenship for all of its people there - especially if they only left Texas and not the US? Or do you think that the US should be involved on things that happen within its borders and that affect its citizens?
This would depend on the wishes of the local government of that province. Do they want to become their own state or their own country? If they just want to become a state, Spain needs to honor their wishes and EU needs to condone it. If they want total sovereignty, then the EU needs to honor it and let them separate entirely.
Uh - what? you think that any location should be able to just cede from the country they are currently part of if the local citizens vote to do so?
I'm not saying I agree or disagree, just asking.
SHOULD they be able to? If we are just talking about things that are good and bad, then yes. That's how the US exists, that's how Canada exists, that's how all countries exist, really. At some point the locals decided they weren't willing to be a part of someone else controlling them. Otherwise, the US would be part of the UK, which would be a part of the Viking empire, which would be a part of Rome.
Yeah I get all that. I guess it just means it's time for more war, assuming the old leaders aren't willing to let those who want to leave, go.
That's a key reason why wars exist - because some people don't believe that nations should get to make their own choices.
What constitutes a nation?
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@dashrender said in Non-IT News Thread:
@scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:
@dashrender said in Non-IT News Thread:
@scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:
@dashrender said in Non-IT News Thread:
@nerdydad said in Non-IT News Thread:
@scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:
@dashrender said in Non-IT News Thread:
It's weird to me that you would expect the EU to get involved in what appears to be an internal conflict, at least as it pertains to currently understood country borders.
So if west Texas declared independence from Texas, do you think that the US should not be involved AND automatically revoke American citizenship for all of its people there - especially if they only left Texas and not the US? Or do you think that the US should be involved on things that happen within its borders and that affect its citizens?
This would depend on the wishes of the local government of that province. Do they want to become their own state or their own country? If they just want to become a state, Spain needs to honor their wishes and EU needs to condone it. If they want total sovereignty, then the EU needs to honor it and let them separate entirely.
Uh - what? you think that any location should be able to just cede from the country they are currently part of if the local citizens vote to do so?
I'm not saying I agree or disagree, just asking.
SHOULD they be able to? If we are just talking about things that are good and bad, then yes. That's how the US exists, that's how Canada exists, that's how all countries exist, really. At some point the locals decided they weren't willing to be a part of someone else controlling them. Otherwise, the US would be part of the UK, which would be a part of the Viking empire, which would be a part of Rome.
Yeah I get all that. I guess it just means it's time for more war, assuming the old leaders aren't willing to let those who want to leave, go.
That's a key reason why wars exist - because some people don't believe that nations should get to make their own choices.
What constitutes a nation?
The word nation stems from the Latin natio, meaning "people, tribe, kin, genus, class, flock."
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Black's Law Dictionary defines a nation as:
A people, or aggregation of men, existing in the form of an organized jural society, usually inhabiting a distinct portion of the earth, speaking the same language, using the same customs, possessing historic continuity, and distinguished from other like groups by their racial origin and characteristics, and generally, but not necessarily, living under the same government and sovereignty.
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Spanish PM dissolves Catalan parliament
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41783289 -
A little late as they no longer recognize him as PM.
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@scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:
A little late as they no longer recognize him as PM.
Still moving to Spain?
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@coliver said in Non-IT News Thread:
@scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:
A little late as they no longer recognize him as PM.
Still moving to Spain?
Catalonia might be a better option down the road.
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@nerdydad said in Non-IT News Thread:
@coliver said in Non-IT News Thread:
@scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:
A little late as they no longer recognize him as PM.
Still moving to Spain?
Catalonia might be a better option down the road.
As much as I think that they should be independent, it's Spain that I love for myself.
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@coliver said in Non-IT News Thread:
@scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:
A little late as they no longer recognize him as PM.
Still moving to Spain?
That would be like not moving to the US just because Puerto Rico left.
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Scott’s random believes the side the real question is whether or not Catalonia is actually the nation it was conquered. By force or not tough shit that’s history it was conquered it was Spain is not an independent nation.
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@jaredbusch said in Non-IT News Thread:
Scott’s random believes the side the real question is whether or not Catalonia is actually the nation it was conquered. By force or not tough shit that’s history it was conquered it was Spain is not an independent nation.
I don't follow Siri.
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@jaredbusch said in Non-IT News Thread:
Scott’s random believes the side the real question is whether or not Catalonia is actually the nation it was conquered.
Even Spain has long recognized Catalonia as a nation, as has the EU. This isn't Scott's belief, this is standard everywhere. Just like Seneca or Quebec. That's why QC is the National Capital of Quebec, for example. And Salamanca is the National Capital of the Seneca Nation.
A nation is a thing, it can't be defined by someone conquering it.
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@scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:
@jaredbusch said in Non-IT News Thread:
Scott’s random believes the side the real question is whether or not Catalonia is actually the nation it was conquered.
Even Spain has long recognized Catalonia as a nation, as has the EU. This isn't Scott's belief, this is standard everywhere. Just like Seneca or Quebec. That's why QC is the National Capital of Quebec, for example. And Salamanca is the National Capital of the Seneca Nation.
A nation is a thing, it can't be defined by someone conquering it.
The whole idea of a nation that doesn't have sovereignty is awkward to me. How can the EU recognize a nation that exists solely within the boundaries of a country that is a member. I would expect that that nation would have to have an actual seat at the table in the EU to have any real standing.
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@dashrender said in Non-IT News Thread:
The whole idea of a nation that doesn't have sovereignty is awkward to me.
Shouldn't be, nations and sovereignty are totally different things. You should be questioning why you associate the two. Clearly they can overlap, but nothing causes them to do so. It's not common to do so, in fact.
