Net Neutrality is Live
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@Dashrender said:
@IRJ said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@IRJ said:
I am not exactly sure how Netflix pays for their shows, but It seems like they could just make their own channels with shows they already have. Although I believe that traditional channels are obsolete in this day and age.
What would be the purpose of a channel?
The reason for channel is to get you to watch something you wouldn't normally chose. There are decent shows on Netflix that may not appeal to you when you see the title and description, but if you actually watched 5-10 minutes of the show or movie then you might actually find something you like.
In reality it is really playlists that run all the time and you can peek whenever you like and maybe you will see something you like.
They could have channels for:
Reality TV
Outdoor and Nature TV
Comedy TV
Drama TV
and etc.There is a valid point here, but as @scottalanmiller said you don't need a channel that can't be changed to do that. You can subscribe to a curated feed that would show you like minded things to your normal choices.
I agree that you don't need it, but it would sure be convenient. My fiancee and I will sometimes spend 30 minutes going through various on demand content. Sometimes I recommend something and she says I don't want to watch that or vice versa. We go back and forth and sometimes we end up watching the same crap we always watch.
What if Netflix took all the guesswork out of this? We both want to watch new shows, but we don't know what to watch,. Hey honey, just flip to the comedy channel...nah, lets try a drama or maybe an action movie. We would really welcome something like this because otherwise it is very difficult to make up our minds.
@Dashrender and @scottalanmiller seem to be spending alot of energy on saying you don't need this. You are absolutely right. It's a feature of convenience and for me and many other couples that dont't exactly agree on TV preferences it would make things so much easier.
@Dashrender the recommend channel thing just doesn't work because you have to make a commitment to actually start the show. Before you start to watch the show, either the title, description, picture or whatever could turn you off on even getting that far. Then you have to watch the dumb intro and it takes you a good 5 minutes to get to any decent content within the show.
When you have a constant playlist going, you can get hooked into something. For example you may never consciously start an old Arnold movie from the beginning. When you switch to the action channel, you are the middle of an awesome gun fight. Who isn't going to get hooked into that for 10 minutes and maybe even finish the movie?
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@IRJ said:
@Dashrender and @scottalanmiller seem to be spending alot of energy on saying you don't need this. You are absolutely right. It's a feature of convenience and for me and many other couples that dont't exactly agree on TV preferences it would make things so much easier.
You are missing what we are saying. It's not even more convenient. Channels literally offer nothing. Every feature you mention is a feature we are do as well or better without a non-on-demand channel. If you want shows to start in mid-stream, even that can be replicated.
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@IRJ said:
When you have a constant playlist going, you can get hooked into something. For example you may never consciously start an old Arnold movie from the beginning. When you switch to the action channel, you are the middle of an awesome gun fight. Who isn't going to get hooked into that for 10 minutes and maybe even finish the movie?
No need for channels for that. You can do that on demand too. No idea why that would be good, but you can. The thing is, when on demand is available, everyone stops doing this.
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@scottalanmiller I don't understand why you are so adamantly against this idea. I guarantee you more MANY Netflix users would want this. I would not take alot of effort on Netflix's end to make this happen.
The whole point if you don't know what you want to watch, Why not have a constant stream you can peek in on. You don't have to peek in on it. You could still have all your content on demand. This is in addition to the way Netflix works. I am not saying to replace the current way Netflix works.
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@IRJ said:
@scottalanmiller I don't understand why you are so adamantly against this idea. I guarantee you more MANY Netflix users would want this. I would not take alot of effort on Netflix's end to make this happen.
The whole point if you don't know what you want to watch, Why not have a constant stream you can peek in on. You don't have to peek in on it. You could still have all your content on demand. This is in addition to the way Netflix works. I am not saying to replace the current way Netflix works.
What I keep saying is... that's not the point. You keep saying reasons that you want channels, but we keep pointing out that channels aren't needed for the features that you want. All of that can be done with on demand systems. You want to know why I am so adamantly against it... it's because there is no reason presented for why it is superior. Flip it around, why are you so adamant about channels when every feature you mention can be done the same or better without traditional channels?
Netflix could make "channels" but it could make superior options for the same or less effort. What I'm saying is that channels are not necessary, playlists and an option to have things start "randomly" mid-stream cover all of those bases.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@IRJ said:
@scottalanmiller I don't understand why you are so adamantly against this idea. I guarantee you more MANY Netflix users would want this. I would not take alot of effort on Netflix's end to make this happen.
The whole point if you don't know what you want to watch, Why not have a constant stream you can peek in on. You don't have to peek in on it. You could still have all your content on demand. This is in addition to the way Netflix works. I am not saying to replace the current way Netflix works.
What I keep saying is... that's not the point. You keep saying reasons that you want channels, but we keep pointing out that channels aren't needed for the features that you want. All of that can be done with on demand systems. You want to know why I am so adamantly against it... it's because there is no reason presented for why it is superior. Flip it around, why are you so adamant about channels when every feature you mention can be done the same or better without traditional channels?
Netflix could make "channels" but it could make superior options for the same or less effort. What I'm saying is that channels are not necessary, playlists and an option to have things start "randomly" mid-stream cover all of those bases.
The thing is I still have to chose what goes on there and where everything starts. That is the whole problem, I cannot chose what I want. Because I don't know what I want
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I think its a million dollar idea and its what Netflix needs to knock down the TV providers.
I might go pitch the idea on shark tank....uh never mind. Well maybe, if I add a QVC channel to the idea......
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@IRJ said:
The thing is I still have to chose what goes on there and where everything starts. That is the whole problem, I cannot chose what I want. Because I don't know what I want
You are combining the concept of channels with what Netflix offers today. You are missing that we keep saying that Netflix, with no effort, could offer everything you mention - literally everything, every feature, every caveat, without needing channels. Just because they don't do it doesn't mean that channels are the answer. They won't offer channels because it doesn't make sense. If channels made the slightest sense, they could offer every channel "feature" easier without using channels. That's what we are saying. Don't mix what they are offering with what they could offer.
Everything you've asked for with a channel can be done without a channel. Why do you keep insisting on the channel mechanism?
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@IRJ said:
@IRJ said:
I think its a million dollar idea and its what Netflix needs to knock down the TV providers.
I might go pitch the idea on shark tank....uh never mind. Well maybe, if I add a QVC channel to the idea......
Trust me, everyone who has used on demand services for the past fifteen years has thought of this, worked out how to do it and thus far, determined that it isn't worth any money. What you are proposing has been discussed a lot and always comes out to "no vendor cares because the value is too low." Trust me, I know exactly what you are asking for and it takes absolutely nothing for the vendors to provide. But they just aren't seeing a market for it. This idea goes back to the earliest days of Internet streaming services. @AndyW and I were working in this space, doing actual channels for radio, in the early 2000s - and even then no one would use them versus on demand based systems.
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@IRJ said:
@scottalanmiller I don't understand why you are so adamantly against this idea. I guarantee you more MANY Netflix users would want this. I would not take alot of effort on Netflix's end to make this happen.
The whole point if you don't know what you want to watch, Why not have a constant stream you can peek in on. You don't have to peek in on it. You could still have all your content on demand. This is in addition to the way Netflix works. I am not saying to replace the current way Netflix works.
This describes the autoplay feature on YouTube pretty well. Choose something you like and it'll make a playlist of similar things.
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@MattSpeller said:
@IRJ said:
@scottalanmiller I don't understand why you are so adamantly against this idea. I guarantee you more MANY Netflix users would want this. I would not take alot of effort on Netflix's end to make this happen.
The whole point if you don't know what you want to watch, Why not have a constant stream you can peek in on. You don't have to peek in on it. You could still have all your content on demand. This is in addition to the way Netflix works. I am not saying to replace the current way Netflix works.
This describes the autoplay feature on YouTube pretty well. Choose something you like and it'll make a playlist of similar things.
That's a good start, but only does part of what he wants. It isn't curated (the "next" item is always garbage) and it never starts in the middle of a show. It's good, but not what he wants. But you could take that, use curated playlists and add a "start in the middle" feature and you meet or beet any channel system feature for feature, caveat for caveat.
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Other than the "starting in the middle" thing which I would hate, the idea of strong, curated lists that act like a channel but are selectable to be "in rotation" or "pick up where I left off" would be awesome. The nice thing about not using a channel mechanism is that you can select how you want the mechanism to behave so that you aren't making something that only applies to a handful of people.
The problem with the channel mechanism is that currently, the market shows that when alternatives exist, no one chooses that. So replicating it won't make money.
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I see something that I think IRC wants that the curated list can't provide, and that's random compromise based on individual emotions of the moment by all parties watching TV.
That combined with the extreme limited nature that is the channel selection allows for a selection that neither party might want, but one they are willing to live with.Now let me say that in plain English.
Let's say my wife and are bored, etc, etc.. and we're going to watch TV, there is nothing left on the DVR we both watch to watch, so one of us grabs the remote and starts channel surfing and I ask my wife if she wants to watch xzy that I see that I like. No No No she says as I continue to flip down the channel list. I reach the end and say fine, you suggest something. Same thing happens, she flips suggests I say no to the end.. well now we're at an impass - one of us will take control and simply pick something. If we're lucky the middle of the show that I pick will provide enough interest to my wife that she'll watch it without complaining.
If I remove the limited channel line up and only use content on demand, there's a higher than normal chance that I will choose something that she doesn't like - additionally, currently it's not standard to start at anyplace but the beginning of a show (but you can fix that by simply hitting fastforward for a random amount of time on the show YOU"VE chosen, or that SHE chose in the efforts to endure them to watch the show - but that is more effort than IRC wants to employ. and frankly the random factor here really isn't random, but putting a random start time on a show is something I never see being truly useful so why would any streaming media provider include it.
Also, if you're so fickle to allow a title/synopsis, etc stop you from watching a show you haven't seen before, what is going to change if that show is now on demand instead of forced upon you by a channel? Why would you stay on that channel? I certainly don't, I surf until I find something that does seem to interest me.
Now if you're still with me - I think that Netflix could actually provide you with content you both would like based upon your moods, but it will require a fair amount of work on your part. when you are watching netflix you'll need to tell it your mood, and who's watching.. then over time netflix will learn things about you.. and be able to provide suggestions that will fit you both. This technology already exists, maybe not commercially, but technically, it just takes implementation. Unfortunately that cost of entry is probably to high, do you really want to spend time telling the system who's watching and what their mood is when you start watching, of course not, who's got time for that?
So while I think I see what IRC wants, I consider it completely impractical, but not enough of a demanded feature to keep the channel idea alive.
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@Dashrender said:
Now if you're still with me - I think that Netflix could actually provide you with content you both would like based upon your moods, but it will require a fair amount of work on your part. when you are watching netflix you'll need to tell it your mood, and who's watching.. then over time netflix will learn things about you.. and be able to provide suggestions that will fit you both. This technology already exists, maybe not commercially, but technically, it just takes implementation. Unfortunately that cost of entry is probably to high, do you really want to spend time telling the system who's watching and what their mood is when you start watching, of course not, who's got time for that?
The Playstation Netflix App has a really cool feature called Netflix Max. It allows you to answer two or three questions then it gives you suggestions based on how you rated other shows/movies. It is a really nice addition especially during that time where you really don't feel like finding a show to watch.
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@coliver said:
@Dashrender said:
Now if you're still with me - I think that Netflix could actually provide you with content you both would like based upon your moods, but it will require a fair amount of work on your part. when you are watching netflix you'll need to tell it your mood, and who's watching.. then over time netflix will learn things about you.. and be able to provide suggestions that will fit you both. This technology already exists, maybe not commercially, but technically, it just takes implementation. Unfortunately that cost of entry is probably to high, do you really want to spend time telling the system who's watching and what their mood is when you start watching, of course not, who's got time for that?
The Playstation Netflix App has a really cool feature called Netflix Max. It allows you to answer two or three questions then it gives you suggestions based on how you rated other shows/movies. It is a really nice addition especially during that time where you really don't feel like finding a show to watch.
Interesting, now IRC and wife need to agree to not give the title any credit good or bad, and not read the synopsis and just start watching the show and he'll have nearly what he wants.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@IRJ said:
@IRJ said:
I think its a million dollar idea and its what Netflix needs to knock down the TV providers.
I might go pitch the idea on shark tank....uh never mind. Well maybe, if I add a QVC channel to the idea......
Trust me, everyone who has used on demand services for the past fifteen years has thought of this, worked out how to do it and thus far, determined that it isn't worth any money. What you are proposing has been discussed a lot and always comes out to "no vendor cares because the value is too low." Trust me, I know exactly what you are asking for and it takes absolutely nothing for the vendors to provide. But they just aren't seeing a market for it. This idea goes back to the earliest days of Internet streaming services. @AndyW and I were working in this space, doing actual channels for radio, in the early 2000s - and even then no one would use them versus on demand based systems.
I was joking about the million dollar idea think. It was just an attempt of humor at Mark Cuban's expense.
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I'm not sure there will ever be an algorithm that will give reliable recommendations on what I'd like. I dunno, maybe I have less predictable tastes than most people. Spotify, Amazon and Netflix all seem well wide of the mark.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
I'm not sure there will ever be an algorithm that will give reliable recommendations on what I'd like. I dunno, maybe I have less predictable tastes than most people. Spotify, Amazon and Netflix all seem well wide of the mark.
OK I can see that, and even agree that it will be painful at best to get them to give you something that will fit your mood at the time you're looking... but really - channels DEFINITELY don't do that for you now. You're forced to choose only from the selection that they have playing at the moment you're looking.
So look at Netflix, Hulu, etc the same way - that you're forced into this small focused list that they are providing you - really it' no different than what is on the channels on the cable box.
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I rely on recommendations and reviews in the TV listings of my newspaper. They don't tend to review Netflix programs to the same extent. I'm sure they will as Netflix becomes more popular. Professional critics always beat algorithms for me.
For me, art is either good or it isn't. There isn't any particular genre I like over another. So an algorithm would never work. There will never be a computer that can calculate why I love Breaking Bad and Seinfeld so much more than other series.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
I'm not sure there will ever be an algorithm that will give reliable recommendations on what I'd like. I dunno, maybe I have less predictable tastes than most people. Spotify, Amazon and Netflix all seem well wide of the mark.
Same problem. those algorithms can't figure out what I like at all.
