Is Microsoft the New Apple?
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@Dashrender said:
I agree that our education system in the US is failing us, but I'm not really sure it's the school's place the be teaching a product. Which is probably why it doesn't happen now, general skills that can be applied to nearly anything is their goal.
Teaching a product and teaching a skill are different. If you were in elementary school in 1980, it was common for schools to teach computing with actual programming. Once GUIs became available they generally stopped and resorted to teaching "Word" and "Excel" skills rather than computer skills. Very different things. They teach apps now, they don't teach about computers themselves.
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I feel that all students should know programming (this can be taught to eight year olds no problem, it's finding teachers that's the issue), basic networking, basic computer parts, how they work, building a computer like you mentioned is good, etc. They need to know what these devices are. Computers have become magic black boxes to supposedly well educated people today.
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@scottalanmiller said:
I feel that all students should know programming (this can be taught to eight year olds no problem, it's finding teachers that's the issue), basic networking, basic computer parts, how they work, building a computer like you mentioned is good, etc. They need to know what these devices are. Computers have become magic black boxes to supposedly well educated people today.
This, when I was working at a school I was talking with the principal, superintendent, and IT manager about doing an extra-curricular option for students. I was planning on volunteering to do it. However I knew in advance that the students who would show up would be the ones who didn't really need to learn this. You would need to make it a required course in order for it to have an effect. I had 4 weeks of lessons planned out... but the teachers union didn't like having a non-union employee teaching, even after I invited one of the "tech" teachers to supervise.
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@coliver said:
but the teachers union didn't like having a non-union employee teaching, even after I invited one of the "tech" teachers to supervise.
No surprised there, teachers actually blocking student education because it is all about money, not the students. Teachers are one of the biggest problems with the schools today. Sure, some are great. But in general, how often are our kids taught by people who, if our kids learned to their level only, we would be ashamed of them? I expect my kids (I sure hope) to be educated far beyond the overall education of a normal teacher before getting out of high school. The bar is just so low, how can the schools teach to a decent level if the teachers in the schools are nowhere near that level?
The basic skills we often want kids to have are the skills teachers often lack themselves.
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By the way, getting good computer education into the common core or into state curricula would be an amazing, grass roots project for the ML community to do via Change.org
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@scottalanmiller said:
By the way, getting good computer education into the common core or into state curricula would be an amazing, grass roots project for the ML community to do via Change.org
Sure, except most schools (at least in upstate NY) are now getting rid of (or drastically reducing ) their computer science options in favor of vocational options (don't get me wrong vocational jobs are important too). School budgets really aren't doing so well upstate. Good to see that lotto money being put to good use.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
I agree that our education system in the US is failing us, but I'm not really sure it's the school's place the be teaching a product. Which is probably why it doesn't happen now, general skills that can be applied to nearly anything is their goal.
Teaching a product and teaching a skill are different. If you were in elementary school in 1980, it was common for schools to teach computing with actual programming. Once GUIs became available they generally stopped and resorted to teaching "Word" and "Excel" skills rather than computer skills. Very different things. They teach apps now, they don't teach about computers themselves.
I started Kindergarden in 1980, so I'm guessing I missed the programming days.
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@coliver said:
@scottalanmiller said:
By the way, getting good computer education into the common core or into state curricula would be an amazing, grass roots project for the ML community to do via Change.org
Sure, except most schools (at least in upstate NY) are now getting rid of (or drastically reducing ) their computer science options in favor of vocational options (don't get me wrong vocational jobs are important too). School budgets really aren't doing so well upstate. Good to see that lotto money being put to good use.
Cuomo just announced that Albany is seizing control of the schools as they have declared the local administration and communities to be incompetent and that they have a track record of not being able to judge a viable education. This was just a few days ago.
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@Dashrender said:
I started Kindergarden in 1980, so I'm guessing I missed the programming days.
You got me beat, I started in 1981. I was at the tail end of the curve, 1978-1979 seems to have been the sweet spot for those entering Kindergarten to get programming in school but if I had been in a funded public school instead of a backwoods private school with unpaid teachers who hadn't graduated from school themselves we would have had programming education too. Andy (NTG founder) was behind me starting Kindergarten in a public school about twenty minutes from me around 1982 and he got lots of programming in school. Mostly BASIC on the Apple ][.
My school did not get their first computer until my mother donated an Apple ][c to them around 1988, a year after we already had a vastly more advanced Amiga 1000 at home.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@coliver said:
@scottalanmiller said:
By the way, getting good computer education into the common core or into state curricula would be an amazing, grass roots project for the ML community to do via Change.org
Sure, except most schools (at least in upstate NY) are now getting rid of (or drastically reducing ) their computer science options in favor of vocational options (don't get me wrong vocational jobs are important too). School budgets really aren't doing so well upstate. Good to see that lotto money being put to good use.
Cuomo just announced that Albany is seizing control of the schools as they have declared the local administration and communities to be incompetent and that they have a track record of not being able to judge a viable education. This was just a few days ago.
I hadn't heard of that... not sure if that is good news or not. Generally the NYS government isn't the bastion of bureaucratic ability.
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@coliver It's true, but the local districts have been failing hard too.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@coliver It's true, but the local districts have been failing hard too.
Agreed, seems like every district but one around us is increasing taxes like crazy, the one where I live now had to get a vote to increase taxes this year over the usual annual increase...
