Writing a Cover Letter
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I'm not asking for an eloquent covering letter, I'm asking for a covering letter. What you're basically saying is that you refuse to carry out my simple request because you don't believe it's worth doing. Regardless of whether you are right or not, we're never going to have a healthy working relationship with that kind of attitude.
Anyway, my job is working for an SMB, and at SMBs I don't believe there are purely technical roles. We need all-rounders, so so called "soft skills" are a requirement. There is nothing here that is that technical, so I'm not just looking for the most technically skilled candidate.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
I'm not asking for an eloquent covering letter, I'm asking for a covering letter.
Why?
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@Carnival-Boy said:
I'm not asking for an eloquent covering letter, I'm asking for a covering letter. What you're basically saying is that you refuse to carry out my simple request because you don't believe it's worth doing. Regardless of whether you are right or not, we're never going to have a healthy working relationship with that kind of attitude.
Anyway, my job is working for an SMB, and at SMBs I don't believe there are purely technical roles. We need all-rounders, so so called "soft skills" are a requirement. There is nothing here that is that technical, so I'm not just looking for the most technically skilled candidate.
Yeah, the smaller the company, the more diverse your skills need to be. You don't hire specialist roles in the SMB, as a rule. You hire skilled generalists. Also, your point about soft skills being a requirement is kind of moot. You need soft skills in pretty much every job of every profession at every level. Even if you're the best person with <insert product here> in the world, you still need to be able to deal with clients and articulate issues in a professional manner.
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@IRJ said:
@Carnival-Boy said:
I'm not asking for an eloquent covering letter, I'm asking for a covering letter.
Why?
I kind of agree with this. What you've just said is that you are expecting mediocre and that average is the standard to meet. At that point, what purpose does it serve? To me this reads "I want a cover letter for the sake of having a cover letter".
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@Carnival-Boy said:
I'm not asking for an eloquent covering letter, I'm asking for a covering letter. What you're basically saying is that you refuse to carry out my simple request because you don't believe it's worth doing. Regardless of whether you are right or not, we're never going to have a healthy working relationship with that kind of attitude.
Anyway, my job is working for an SMB, and at SMBs I don't believe there are purely technical roles. We need all-rounders, so so called "soft skills" are a requirement. There is nothing here that is that technical, so I'm not just looking for the most technically skilled candidate.
I have no problem writing a cover letter... but it seems like you are only asking for it because that is normally what you ask for on a job application. I would write one if it were required but I don't think it would do anything to sell me above and beyond what my resume is already capable of. The cover letter really doesn't tell you about that persons soft skills... it potentially tells you about their friend's (or librarian sister in-law) who proofread and made significant changes to it... soft skills. The only time you will really ever find out someone's soft-skills is during an interview.
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@coliver said:
@Carnival-Boy said:
I'm not asking for an eloquent covering letter, I'm asking for a covering letter. What you're basically saying is that you refuse to carry out my simple request because you don't believe it's worth doing. Regardless of whether you are right or not, we're never going to have a healthy working relationship with that kind of attitude.
Anyway, my job is working for an SMB, and at SMBs I don't believe there are purely technical roles. We need all-rounders, so so called "soft skills" are a requirement. There is nothing here that is that technical, so I'm not just looking for the most technically skilled candidate.
I have no problem writing a cover letter... but it seems like you are only asking for it because that is normally what you ask for on a job application. I would write one if it were required but I don't think it would do anything to sell me above and beyond what my resume is already capable of. The cover letter really doesn't tell you about that persons soft skills... it potentially tells you about their friend (or librarian sister in-law) who proofread and made significant changes to it... soft skills. The only time you will really ever find out someone's soft-skills is during an interview.
Bingo!
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@thanksaj said:
@IRJ said:
@Carnival-Boy said:
I'm not asking for an eloquent covering letter, I'm asking for a covering letter.
Why?
I kind of agree with this. What you've just said is that you are expecting mediocre and that average is the standard to meet. At that point, what purpose does it serve? To me this reads "I want a cover letter for the sake of having a cover letter".
Exactly what is the point? This is why I don't do cover letters since my writing isn't so great. It would only devalue my resume
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I am sure @scottalanmiller will come in at some point and tell us how important cover letters are....lol
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@IRJ said:
I am sure @scottalanmiller will come in at some point and tell us how important cover letters are....lol
I bet he agrees with us.
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@IRJ said:
Exactly what is the point? This is why I don't do cover letters since my writing isn't so great. It would only devalue my resume
Well, one point is to see if the candidate is prepared to carry out my simple instruction, even if they disagree with it.
Let me ask you this, do you also refuse to answer interview questions if you think they're pointless?
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@IRJ said:
@thanksaj said:
@IRJ said:
@Carnival-Boy said:
I'm not asking for an eloquent covering letter, I'm asking for a covering letter.
Why?
I kind of agree with this. What you've just said is that you are expecting mediocre and that average is the standard to meet. At that point, what purpose does it serve? To me this reads "I want a cover letter for the sake of having a cover letter".
Exactly what is the point? This is why I don't do cover letters since my writing isn't so great. It would only devalue my resume
You aren't a horrible writer. I've seen your work. You're not bad. You're what I've seen from a lot of IT people whose writing I've seen. Writing eloquently requires a certain way of thinking that some have and some don't. I see a lot of people get into IT because they lack that way of thinking, which is more of a creative art than a technical one. That being said, many IT people have the same ability but manifest it through music or other art that isn't written. But if I was a hiring manager, I would look at technical first and foremost. Writing is important to me, and God knows I'm a grammar Nazi, but it's a much lower priority.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
@IRJ said:
Exactly what is the point? This is why I don't do cover letters since my writing isn't so great. It would only devalue my resume
Well, one point is to see if the candidate is prepared to carry out my simple instruction, even if they disagree with it.
So... what you are looking for isn't an employee who is looking to grow and expand in their job... you are looking for a drone with unquestionable loyalty? Really glad I'm not applying for this position.
Let me ask you this, do you also refuse to answer interview questions if you think they're pointless?
I would ask what it pertains to and answer it with that understanding. If it was something pointless and they didn't give me a good enough reason to proceed or it was harmful to my position (or illegal to ask during an interview, which has happened) I would say I'm not comfortable answering that.
Interviewing is a two way street, not only are you trying to learn about that candidate but they are trying to learn about your business and environment.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
@IRJ said:
Exactly what is the point? This is why I don't do cover letters since my writing isn't so great. It would only devalue my resume
Well, one point is to see if the candidate is prepared to carry out my simple instruction, even if they disagree with it.
Let me ask you this, do you also refuse to answer interview questions if you think they're pointless?
The only questions that are pointless are if they meet two criteria: they have no purpose and you already know the answer. Besides, if someone asked me a question on an interview, there is a reason for it. Now I ask you: why require a cover letter? You've stated you aren't looking for anything eloquent, which means that, at best, you're looking for average level writing on the letters. Now your point about following instructions I get, and agree with. However, I think you need to ask yourself why you are asking for a cover letter. What does it accomplish? If you have a mediocre standard for the letters, what do they prove? If you get what you're expecting, then it's going to not be worth much. If you get someone who can write eloquently, then you are pleasantly surprised, and maybe even impressed. Suddenly you're giving that person a closer look, which basically means you ARE looking for eloquent but not setting that as your expectation.
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@coliver said:
it potentially tells you about their friend's (or librarian sister in-law) who proofread and made significant changes to it... soft skills.
See, this is perfect for me. It demonstrates that they've recognised their weakness and instead of giving up they've gone out and asked someone who does have the right skills in that particular area to help them. This is exactly what I'm looking for in a good IT guy. Give me someone who knows when and where to get help over one who only relies on his own skill-sets.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
@coliver said:
it potentially tells you about their friend's (or librarian sister in-law) who proofread and made significant changes to it... soft skills.
See, this is perfect for me. It demonstrates that they've recognised their weakness and instead of giving up they've gone out and asked someone who does have the right skills in that particular area to help them. This is exactly what I'm looking for in a good IT guy. Give me someone who knows when and where to get help over one who only relies on his own skill-sets.
But again... that really isn't what a cover letter tells you, since you really have no way of know when/who/if they went to someone else for help. It does tell you that this person is willing to take credit for work that wasn't their own and lie to you before you even get to the interview process.
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@coliver said:
@Carnival-Boy said:
@IRJ said:
Exactly what is the point? This is why I don't do cover letters since my writing isn't so great. It would only devalue my resume
Well, one point is to see if the candidate is prepared to carry out my simple instruction, even if they disagree with it.
So... what you are looking for isn't an employee who is looking to grow and expand in their job... you are looking for a drone with unquestionable loyalty? Really glad I'm not applying for this position.
Let me ask you this, do you also refuse to answer interview questions if you think they're pointless?
I would ask what it pertains to and answer it with that understanding. If it was something pointless and they didn't give me a good enough reason to proceed or it was harmful to my position (or illegal to ask during an interview, which has happened) I would say I'm not comfortable answering that.
Interviewing is a two way street, not only are you trying to learn about that candidate but they are trying to learn about your business and environment.
This is also an excellent point. Interviews are not me getting interviewed by you. In a good interview, I question you as much as you question me. Maybe even more. Because as much as you need to know I'm right for your company, I need to know your company is right for me.
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@coliver said:
So... what you are looking for isn't an employee who is looking to grow and expand in their job... you are looking for a drone with unquestionable loyalty? Really glad I'm not applying for this position.
Er...no. There is a massive difference between questioning your boss and simply refusing to do what he asks. I argue with my boss all the time, but if I can't make him change his mind then I'll do what he asks.
I guess you are looking for a job where you can pick and choose which tasks to do? I'm glad you're not applying for this position.
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@coliver said:
@Carnival-Boy said:
@coliver said:
it potentially tells you about their friend's (or librarian sister in-law) who proofread and made significant changes to it... soft skills.
See, this is perfect for me. It demonstrates that they've recognised their weakness and instead of giving up they've gone out and asked someone who does have the right skills in that particular area to help them. This is exactly what I'm looking for in a good IT guy. Give me someone who knows when and where to get help over one who only relies on his own skill-sets.
But again... that really isn't what a cover letter tells you, since you really have no way of know when/who/if they went to someone else for help. It does tell you that this person is willing to take credit for work that wasn't their own and lie to you before you even get to the interview process.
Yeah, this. ^^ If he did have one person, or half a dozen people, proofread it and fix mistakes, etc. unless he puts in his cover letter that he got help on the letter, which no sane person is going to do, then you have no way of knowing this, which means the cover letter does nothing but deceive YOU the hiring party. Now if he comes in for an interview, unless you directly ask him "did anyone help you write your cover letter", and he's honest, which would be unlikely in this case, then you're still no more informed.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
@coliver said:
So... what you are looking for isn't an employee who is looking to grow and expand in their job... you are looking for a drone with unquestionable loyalty? Really glad I'm not applying for this position.
Er...no. There is a massive difference between questioning your boss and simply refusing to do what he asks. I argue with my boss all the time, but if I can't make him change his mind then I'll do what he asks.
I guess you are looking for a job where you can pick and choose which tasks to do? I'm glad you're not applying for this position.
I refuse to work for stupid people, which considering I like working at MSPs may seem weird, but I'm not working for the clients, I work for the MSP. If I had a boss that repeatedly did things that made no sense against the word of myself and/or others when we are supposed to be the experts on the matter, then I would find alternate employment. I have a real aversion to bashing my head against the wall unnecessarily.
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If you're unenthused about writing the cover letter, it probably means you're not excited about the job itself.
