Ipad guru for Site connectivity issue

WrCombs

@scottalanmiller said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@WrCombs said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@scottalanmiller said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@WrCombs said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@scottalanmiller said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@WrCombs said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@scottalanmiller said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@WrCombs said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

It's willful ignorance, not sabotage.

Using willful ignorance to stop things getting fixed is as sabotage as sabotage gets.

When did I say he stopped the problem from getting fixed?
because he told me it was utter bullshit? Know how many times I get told the same thing every day by customers, then I fix it? that doesn't stop the problem from getting fixed, it just means that Explaining what the issue was prior to fixing it doesn't work .

So you stand right there and do what they have told you is bullshit even though they told you that? You don't consider that defying them when they've claimed that you are wrong? You work for them. If my staff did that after I told them they were wrong, that's insubordination.

No, I sit here and get off the phone, then fix it.
What I've learned is instead of saying " hey this is the problem" it's more so " let me look at it, because I have an idea." that avoids all of this

So when you fix it later, you hide how you fixed it? Or do you expose that he lied and tried to sabotage the process?

I tell them exactly how it was fixed and what caused it, typically then I hear something along the lines of "well I'll be damned. Next time I'll let you do your job."

Let me know if this one says that

He's said that in the past to me multiple times, actually on many issues that were either user error or completely unrelated to things that he was complaining about

WrCombs

@wirestyle22 said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@WrCombs said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@scottalanmiller said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@Dashrender said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@scottalanmiller said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@WrCombs said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

then told me that it wasn't the network cause he has a Cellular backup in place and it has never once turned on so me saying it's a network issue is "utter bullshit and just an excuse"

This is the spot where he is sabotaging. He knows that he made this up and has no idea what he's saying. Knowing that, he decided to say it anyway. That's what makes it sabotage, he's deciding to throw a monkey wrench in the troubleshooting process for whatever reason.

I have no clue what you are talking about here? he "knows" that the cellular option hasn't been used - now why he 'thinks' this has anything to do with anything at all - that's the real question...

He knows he doesn't know what a network is. The rest is him just making shit up to derail Will or try to sabotage something.

Derail me into thinking that I have to take Ownership of the problem, yes I will agree. Not that I think he would actually try to sabotage the troubleshooting process on purpose, could he be doing so without the knowledge by showing willful ignorance, absolutely. So I can kind of see it, but at the same time it doesn't make sense the he would purposely continue to lose money.

I highly doubt that is his motivation, but Scott is ignoring his intent and focusing on his actions. People get emotional. They do and say things they don't mean out of stress. It's just a part of working for someone who isn't in control of their emotions. The best way to handle people like this is to ignore everything they say, diagnose the problem, fix it and if they don't believe how you fixed it you treat them like a flatearther

Just agree and both be wrong so they feel better about themselves?

Dashrender

@WrCombs said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@scottalanmiller said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@WrCombs said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@scottalanmiller said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@WrCombs said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

he's being ignorant, yes, but that doesn't stop me from reaching out to the network team that set it up and fix the issue . .

Well, legally it makes it a grey area. Doing something against the will of the paying customer isn't necessarily something you have a right to do.

which is why I learned not to say anything to the customer outside of the scope of "I have an idea, let me look into this." because then they can't tell me it's bullshit.

the best part was I never brought up the network to him, that's just what he told me.

I see, so it wasn't in response to you investigating? He just told you what it wasn't.

But even so, when you are done, how does that conversation go.

"Hey person who pays me, I disregarded what you said because I assumed you're an idiot or liar and checked exactly the thing you said it couldn't be and voila, you were wrong."

It's a tough situation. Sure, you can prove them wrong. But if his desire is to blame you, that'll just make him madder.

oh his goal is to find someone to blame so he can recoup some of the money he's lost due to the issues.

Now this makes sense - try to blame the tech.. sue for lose income...
But if his dumb ass doesn't have a fail back plan for that outage - well, that's really on him!

wirestyle22

@WrCombs said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@wirestyle22 said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@WrCombs said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@scottalanmiller said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@Dashrender said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@scottalanmiller said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@WrCombs said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

then told me that it wasn't the network cause he has a Cellular backup in place and it has never once turned on so me saying it's a network issue is "utter bullshit and just an excuse"

This is the spot where he is sabotaging. He knows that he made this up and has no idea what he's saying. Knowing that, he decided to say it anyway. That's what makes it sabotage, he's deciding to throw a monkey wrench in the troubleshooting process for whatever reason.

I have no clue what you are talking about here? he "knows" that the cellular option hasn't been used - now why he 'thinks' this has anything to do with anything at all - that's the real question...

He knows he doesn't know what a network is. The rest is him just making shit up to derail Will or try to sabotage something.

Derail me into thinking that I have to take Ownership of the problem, yes I will agree. Not that I think he would actually try to sabotage the troubleshooting process on purpose, could he be doing so without the knowledge by showing willful ignorance, absolutely. So I can kind of see it, but at the same time it doesn't make sense the he would purposely continue to lose money.

I highly doubt that is his motivation, but Scott is ignoring his intent and focusing on his actions. People get emotional. They do and say things they don't mean out of stress. It's just a part of working for someone who isn't in control of their emotions. The best way to handle people like this is to ignore everything they say, diagnose the problem, fix it and if they don't believe how you fixed it you treat them like a flatearther

Just agree and both be wrong so they feel better about themselves?

You don't need to agree. You tell them x, they say they believe y. You can say I've been completely honest with you, but if you want to believe y that is your perogative. end conversation. its not your job to convince him of anything, its only your job to fix issues. who cares what he believes

scottalanmiller

@Dashrender said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@scottalanmiller said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@Dashrender said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

Seriously - your client tells you what Will's has told him - what are you going to say to him? really, I want the real words you'd say...

I'd immediately deal with the "are you telling me that you hired me to troubelshoot something you can't figure out, but are telling me that you figured it out... if you know what's wrong, why am I here and why are you hiding it from me?"

The reality is, because i don't let people get away with lying to me, they stop.

This is extremely confrontational, and frankly - I'm not sure Will is in a position to make this statement. Now that said - Will should bring this to his management, those in the position to put this client in their place, and have them make that statement.

If Will said that - his employer could try to claim he was trying to embarrassed the client.. and if they left his company, they could try blaming him. and while Will would likely win in court... the damage would still be there...

Right, his boss puts him into a tough spot. But you asked how I'd deal with someone lying to my face while, as Will said, attempting to blame us for an outage he's attempting to create.

scottalanmiller

@WrCombs said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@scottalanmiller said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@Dashrender said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@scottalanmiller said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@WrCombs said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

then told me that it wasn't the network cause he has a Cellular backup in place and it has never once turned on so me saying it's a network issue is "utter bullshit and just an excuse"

This is the spot where he is sabotaging. He knows that he made this up and has no idea what he's saying. Knowing that, he decided to say it anyway. That's what makes it sabotage, he's deciding to throw a monkey wrench in the troubleshooting process for whatever reason.

I have no clue what you are talking about here? he "knows" that the cellular option hasn't been used - now why he 'thinks' this has anything to do with anything at all - that's the real question...

He knows he doesn't know what a network is. The rest is him just making shit up to derail Will or try to sabotage something.

Derail me into thinking that I have to take Ownership of the problem, yes I will agree. Not that I think he would actually try to sabotage the troubleshooting process on purpose, could he be doing so without the knowledge by showing willful ignorance, absolutely. So I can kind of see it, but at the same time it doesn't make sense the he would purposely continue to lose money.

Willful ignores means on purpose. Regular ignorance is when it's not on purpose.

WrCombs

@scottalanmiller said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@WrCombs said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@scottalanmiller said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@Dashrender said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@scottalanmiller said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@WrCombs said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

then told me that it wasn't the network cause he has a Cellular backup in place and it has never once turned on so me saying it's a network issue is "utter bullshit and just an excuse"

This is the spot where he is sabotaging. He knows that he made this up and has no idea what he's saying. Knowing that, he decided to say it anyway. That's what makes it sabotage, he's deciding to throw a monkey wrench in the troubleshooting process for whatever reason.

I have no clue what you are talking about here? he "knows" that the cellular option hasn't been used - now why he 'thinks' this has anything to do with anything at all - that's the real question...

He knows he doesn't know what a network is. The rest is him just making shit up to derail Will or try to sabotage something.

Derail me into thinking that I have to take Ownership of the problem, yes I will agree. Not that I think he would actually try to sabotage the troubleshooting process on purpose, could he be doing so without the knowledge by showing willful ignorance, absolutely. So I can kind of see it, but at the same time it doesn't make sense the he would purposely continue to lose money.

Willful ignores means on purpose. Regular ignorance is when it's not on purpose.

You got me there.. but then that begs the question, was it willful or was it just plan ole ignorance? the world may never know

scottalanmiller

@WrCombs said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

So I can kind of see it, but at the same time it doesn't make sense the he would purposely continue to lose money.

You already said that he's emotional and very, very few people, even in IT, are logical very much of the time. Restaurant owners will lean even more towards emotional compared to technical people by nature.

scottalanmiller

@WrCombs said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@scottalanmiller said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@WrCombs said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@scottalanmiller said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@Dashrender said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@scottalanmiller said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@WrCombs said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

then told me that it wasn't the network cause he has a Cellular backup in place and it has never once turned on so me saying it's a network issue is "utter bullshit and just an excuse"

This is the spot where he is sabotaging. He knows that he made this up and has no idea what he's saying. Knowing that, he decided to say it anyway. That's what makes it sabotage, he's deciding to throw a monkey wrench in the troubleshooting process for whatever reason.

I have no clue what you are talking about here? he "knows" that the cellular option hasn't been used - now why he 'thinks' this has anything to do with anything at all - that's the real question...

He knows he doesn't know what a network is. The rest is him just making shit up to derail Will or try to sabotage something.

Derail me into thinking that I have to take Ownership of the problem, yes I will agree. Not that I think he would actually try to sabotage the troubleshooting process on purpose, could he be doing so without the knowledge by showing willful ignorance, absolutely. So I can kind of see it, but at the same time it doesn't make sense the he would purposely continue to lose money.

Willful ignores means on purpose. Regular ignorance is when it's not on purpose.

You got me there.. but then that begs the question, was it willful or was it just plan ole ignorance? the world may never know

Not knowing what a network is... we don't know. Telling you that your work is bullshit because of something he doesn't know, has to be willful. He crossed a line that has no reasonable explanation in being by accident.

That emotionally his goal was to blame and deflect guilt is the obvious driving factor. We don't know that that was true, but we know it's super common and easy to explain the behaviour and normal and predictable.

scottalanmiller

@WrCombs said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@scottalanmiller said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@WrCombs said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@scottalanmiller said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@WrCombs said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@scottalanmiller said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@WrCombs said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@scottalanmiller said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@WrCombs said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

It's willful ignorance, not sabotage.

Using willful ignorance to stop things getting fixed is as sabotage as sabotage gets.

When did I say he stopped the problem from getting fixed?
because he told me it was utter bullshit? Know how many times I get told the same thing every day by customers, then I fix it? that doesn't stop the problem from getting fixed, it just means that Explaining what the issue was prior to fixing it doesn't work .

So you stand right there and do what they have told you is bullshit even though they told you that? You don't consider that defying them when they've claimed that you are wrong? You work for them. If my staff did that after I told them they were wrong, that's insubordination.

No, I sit here and get off the phone, then fix it.
What I've learned is instead of saying " hey this is the problem" it's more so " let me look at it, because I have an idea." that avoids all of this

So when you fix it later, you hide how you fixed it? Or do you expose that he lied and tried to sabotage the process?

I tell them exactly how it was fixed and what caused it, typically then I hear something along the lines of "well I'll be damned. Next time I'll let you do your job."

Let me know if this one says that

He's said that in the past to me multiple times, actually on many issues that were either user error or completely unrelated to things that he was complaining about

So he's actually developed a trend, reinforced that he's making it up, knows that you aren't the problem, knows he makes it up, and continues to do it anyway?

scottalanmiller

You have to ask, given that this is a pattern for him... how can we think the end goal is anything but sabotage? Doing it once I could see trying to cover for him as just being super incompetent at basic business. But getting into a pattern... there's no denying that success is not his goal in this process.

WrCombs

@scottalanmiller said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@WrCombs said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@scottalanmiller said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@WrCombs said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@scottalanmiller said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@WrCombs said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@scottalanmiller said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@WrCombs said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@scottalanmiller said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@WrCombs said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

It's willful ignorance, not sabotage.

Using willful ignorance to stop things getting fixed is as sabotage as sabotage gets.

When did I say he stopped the problem from getting fixed?
because he told me it was utter bullshit? Know how many times I get told the same thing every day by customers, then I fix it? that doesn't stop the problem from getting fixed, it just means that Explaining what the issue was prior to fixing it doesn't work .

So you stand right there and do what they have told you is bullshit even though they told you that? You don't consider that defying them when they've claimed that you are wrong? You work for them. If my staff did that after I told them they were wrong, that's insubordination.

No, I sit here and get off the phone, then fix it.
What I've learned is instead of saying " hey this is the problem" it's more so " let me look at it, because I have an idea." that avoids all of this

So when you fix it later, you hide how you fixed it? Or do you expose that he lied and tried to sabotage the process?

I tell them exactly how it was fixed and what caused it, typically then I hear something along the lines of "well I'll be damned. Next time I'll let you do your job."

Let me know if this one says that

He's said that in the past to me multiple times, actually on many issues that were either user error or completely unrelated to things that he was complaining about

So he's actually developed a trend, reinforced that he's making it up, knows that you aren't the problem, knows he makes it up, and continues to do it anyway?

For the most part, Yeah. I guess that would be right. I never actually thought about it that way.

WrCombs

@scottalanmiller said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

You have to ask, given that this is a pattern for him... how can we think the end goal is anything but sabotage? Doing it once I could see trying to cover for him as just being super incompetent at basic business. But getting into a pattern... there's no denying that success is not his goal in this process.

As I've said earlier , his goal is to find blame, because he claims he is losing money due to our system...

scottalanmiller

@WrCombs said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@scottalanmiller said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

You have to ask, given that this is a pattern for him... how can we think the end goal is anything but sabotage? Doing it once I could see trying to cover for him as just being super incompetent at basic business. But getting into a pattern... there's no denying that success is not his goal in this process.

As I've said earlier , his goal is to find blame,

Exactly. He feels shame and embarrassment and prioritizing his pride over profits and the business. If he had shareholders, he'd be at fault for doing something unethical. As the owner, that's up to him to lose money by being a big baby, but it's still sabotaging himself the same as it would be if he was an employee.

scottalanmiller

That's a good way to think of it. Will, imagine you buy a restaurant. You hire this guy to manage your restaurant. This happens.

Now, you find out that instead of letting the expert you are paying to fix the issues, that your paid manager is intentionally telling them that things that are obviously broken or likely broken are definitely not the issue and pressuring them to not do the best possible job to fix the issue. If it was your money he was throwing away to save face, you'd consider that sabotage. In fact, you'd consider it theft because he's intentionally (for emotional reasons, most likely) taking money out of your pocket, not doing his job (which is to manage to make money), sabotaging the experts from doing their job for personal gain (not financial gain, emotional gain.)

In the case where someone else is the owner, the sabotage behaviour is obvious. That he's the owner himself, it's still sabotage, but not unethical as he's only screwing himself over.

Dashrender

@scottalanmiller said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@WrCombs said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@scottalanmiller said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@WrCombs said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@scottalanmiller said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@WrCombs said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@scottalanmiller said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@WrCombs said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@scottalanmiller said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@WrCombs said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

It's willful ignorance, not sabotage.

Using willful ignorance to stop things getting fixed is as sabotage as sabotage gets.

When did I say he stopped the problem from getting fixed?
because he told me it was utter bullshit? Know how many times I get told the same thing every day by customers, then I fix it? that doesn't stop the problem from getting fixed, it just means that Explaining what the issue was prior to fixing it doesn't work .

So you stand right there and do what they have told you is bullshit even though they told you that? You don't consider that defying them when they've claimed that you are wrong? You work for them. If my staff did that after I told them they were wrong, that's insubordination.

No, I sit here and get off the phone, then fix it.
What I've learned is instead of saying " hey this is the problem" it's more so " let me look at it, because I have an idea." that avoids all of this

So when you fix it later, you hide how you fixed it? Or do you expose that he lied and tried to sabotage the process?

I tell them exactly how it was fixed and what caused it, typically then I hear something along the lines of "well I'll be damned. Next time I'll let you do your job."

Let me know if this one says that

He's said that in the past to me multiple times, actually on many issues that were either user error or completely unrelated to things that he was complaining about

So he's actually developed a trend, reinforced that he's making it up, knows that you aren't the problem, knows he makes it up, and continues to do it anyway?

of course, because no one has sat down with him and shown him how much of a problem he himself is to the situation - and why his attempts to blame the vendor are hurting their relationship.

scottalanmiller

@Dashrender said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@scottalanmiller said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@WrCombs said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@scottalanmiller said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@WrCombs said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@scottalanmiller said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@WrCombs said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@scottalanmiller said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@WrCombs said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@scottalanmiller said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@WrCombs said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

It's willful ignorance, not sabotage.

Using willful ignorance to stop things getting fixed is as sabotage as sabotage gets.

When did I say he stopped the problem from getting fixed?
because he told me it was utter bullshit? Know how many times I get told the same thing every day by customers, then I fix it? that doesn't stop the problem from getting fixed, it just means that Explaining what the issue was prior to fixing it doesn't work .

So you stand right there and do what they have told you is bullshit even though they told you that? You don't consider that defying them when they've claimed that you are wrong? You work for them. If my staff did that after I told them they were wrong, that's insubordination.

No, I sit here and get off the phone, then fix it.
What I've learned is instead of saying " hey this is the problem" it's more so " let me look at it, because I have an idea." that avoids all of this

So when you fix it later, you hide how you fixed it? Or do you expose that he lied and tried to sabotage the process?

I tell them exactly how it was fixed and what caused it, typically then I hear something along the lines of "well I'll be damned. Next time I'll let you do your job."

Let me know if this one says that

He's said that in the past to me multiple times, actually on many issues that were either user error or completely unrelated to things that he was complaining about

So he's actually developed a trend, reinforced that he's making it up, knows that you aren't the problem, knows he makes it up, and continues to do it anyway?

of course, because no one has sat down with him and shown him how much of a problem he himself is to the situation - and why his attempts to blame the vendor are hurting their relationship.

I think that there are several problems to that...

That's his responsibility as the owner / manager. That he's taking on management duties means he's the last word in who gets any responsibility for that. So assuming you are correct, that loops back to being his fault.
It doesn't require for ANY adult to know when they are sabotaging someone to save face. It's absurd to think he has the wherewithal to run a restaurant but doesn't know when he's in someone's way.
We've established that he HAS been shown this, repeatedly, and does it each time regardless of having been shown and having reiterated that he learned it.

WrCombs

Back to the original Thread -

Heard from the Network company - they also agree 2 APs are too close together and could be causing a lot of the issues here. They will be doing maintenance next week about this to get it resolved for testing purposes.
He is building a map and looking into other solutions, and he talked with the owner and let him know he was engaged and that we were working together to get this resolved.

scottalanmiller

@WrCombs said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

Back to the original Thread -

Heard from the Network company - they also agree 2 APs are too close together and could be causing a lot of the issues here. They will be doing maintenance next week about this to get it resolved for testing purposes.
He is building a map and looking into other solutions, and he talked with the owner and let him know he was engaged and that we were working together to get this resolved.

So not only did he hold up the process and attempt to derail things, he involved and blamed the wrong company!?!?

WrCombs

@scottalanmiller said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

@WrCombs said in Ipad guru/ Site connectivity issue:

Back to the original Thread -

Heard from the Network company - they also agree 2 APs are too close together and could be causing a lot of the issues here. They will be doing maintenance next week about this to get it resolved for testing purposes.
He is building a map and looking into other solutions, and he talked with the owner and let him know he was engaged and that we were working together to get this resolved.

So not only did he hold up the process and attempt to derail things, he involved and blamed the wrong company!?!?

It would be assumed so, yes.