Apple Officially Releases their ARM M1 Powered Lineup
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@scottalanmiller said in Apple Officially Releases their ARM M1 Powered Lineup:
And ARM is more memory efficient than AMD64.
Is it? I would have guessed the opposite considering the lineage of CISC vs RISC architecture and that both are 64 bit.
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BTW, Apple is probably never going to make me interested in their products. They have cutting edge marketing for consumers which is impressive but that's about it for me.
I'm a lot more interested in ARM CPU's for servers from Qualcomm (think Snapdragon), Cavium (now Marvell) and AMD.
This is an interesting review from 2018 of how an ARM server fare against Intel and AMD.
https://www.servethehome.com/cavium-thunderx2-review-benchmarks-real-arm-server-option/ -
@Pete-S said in Apple Officially Releases their ARM M1 Powered Lineup:
I'm a lot more interested in ARM CPU's for servers from Qualcomm (think Snapdragon), Cavium (now Marvell) and AMD.
For sure, but I still find the M1 interesting. But when will Ubuntu run well on it?
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@scottalanmiller said in Apple Officially Releases their ARM M1 Powered Lineup:
Even the Mac Mini finally gets a new release...
https://www.apple.com/mac-mini/
The M1 really looks to be impressive and finally something out of Apple that really has the chance to knock our socks off. Instead of being a high cost, not very impressive PC, they are finally leaving the PC market and doing something unique. First time I've been interested in checking out their gear again in almost twenty years!
But will it run anything other than MacOS?
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@scottalanmiller said in Apple Officially Releases their ARM M1 Powered Lineup:
@Pete-S said in Apple Officially Releases their ARM M1 Powered Lineup:
I'm a lot more interested in ARM CPU's for servers from Qualcomm (think Snapdragon), Cavium (now Marvell) and AMD.
For sure, but I still find the M1 interesting. But when will Ubuntu run well on it?
Apple will as usual use open source in their closed ecosystem. If Ubuntu ever runs on it it will be a hack, like a hackintosh.
Whatever Apple can do to make it harder to install another OS, they will do.Apple has perhaps the largest user base of unix-based desktop OS (macOS). But comes far, far, far down on the list of companies that actually contribute to open source.
https://www.infoworld.com/article/3253948/who-really-contributes-to-open-source.html -
@Pete-S said in Apple Officially Releases their ARM M1 Powered Lineup:
Apple will as usual use open source in their closed ecosystem. If Ubuntu ever runs on it it will be a hack, like a hackintosh.
Typically other OSes "just work" on Apple hardware. Nothing needed, definitely no hacking. But someone has to compile for the M1 yet.
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@AdamF said in Apple Officially Releases their ARM M1 Powered Lineup:
@scottalanmiller said in Apple Officially Releases their ARM M1 Powered Lineup:
Even the Mac Mini finally gets a new release...
https://www.apple.com/mac-mini/
The M1 really looks to be impressive and finally something out of Apple that really has the chance to knock our socks off. Instead of being a high cost, not very impressive PC, they are finally leaving the PC market and doing something unique. First time I've been interested in checking out their gear again in almost twenty years!
But will it run anything other than MacOS?
Linux and BSD almost certainly will very quickly. Mac hardware is always a big deal for those ecosystems.
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@scottalanmiller said in [Apple Officially Releases their ARM M1 Powered Lineup](/post/52428
Typically other OSes "just work" on Apple hardware. Nothing needed, definitely no hacking.
Only on x86 hardware.
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@Pete-S said in Apple Officially Releases their ARM M1 Powered Lineup:
@scottalanmiller said in [Apple Officially Releases their ARM M1 Powered Lineup](/post/52428
Typically other OSes "just work" on Apple hardware. Nothing needed, definitely no hacking.
Only on x86 hardware.
And on PowerPC before that.
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@scottalanmiller said in Apple Officially Releases their ARM M1 Powered Lineup:
@Pete-S said in Apple Officially Releases their ARM M1 Powered Lineup:
@scottalanmiller said in [Apple Officially Releases their ARM M1 Powered Lineup](/post/52428
Typically other OSes "just work" on Apple hardware. Nothing needed, definitely no hacking.
Only on x86 hardware.
And on PowerPC before that.
Can't remember that far back. Apple used standard video controllers didn't they?
See, the problem isn't booting a cli, problem is getting the proprietary hardware like GPU to work. Problem is getting things like x264 decoding, power save functions and what not to function.
A hack to me is when you have to reverse engineer everything to get working drivers because the manufacturer wont share anything.
For instance, ubuntu has had one or several mobile OS working on some devices. It's all ARM cpus. Have any of these ever worked on any Apple tablet or phone or watch or...?
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@Pete-S said in Apple Officially Releases their ARM M1 Powered Lineup:
See, the problem isn't booting a cli, problem is getting the proprietary hardware like GPU to work. Problem is getting things like x264 decoding, power save functions and what not to function.
Of for sure, the totally new hardware is going to be a challenge.
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@Pete-S said in Apple Officially Releases their ARM M1 Powered Lineup:
A hack to me is when you have to reverse engineer everything to get working drivers because the manufacturer wont share anything.
This very well may end up being the case. But it seems like something that they would have done in the past, but have thus far avoided. But this is a new scale of opportunity for them to be extra proprietary, so easily they will jump on it and take advantage of that.
However, I don't think that that is a sensible business model for them. They make 100% of their money selling the hardware and lose money on the software. Getting Linux folks wanting their hardware is purely a win for them. In theory, at least.
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@scottalanmiller said in Apple Officially Releases their ARM M1 Powered Lineup:
@Pete-S said in Apple Officially Releases their ARM M1 Powered Lineup:
A hack to me is when you have to reverse engineer everything to get working drivers because the manufacturer wont share anything.
This very well may end up being the case. But it seems like something that they would have done in the past, but have thus far avoided. But this is a new scale of opportunity for them to be extra proprietary, so easily they will jump on it and take advantage of that.
However, I don't think that that is a sensible business model for them. They make 100% of their money selling the hardware and lose money on the software. Getting Linux folks wanting their hardware is purely a win for them. In theory, at least.
I agree with you and I hope you're right for everyone's sake but I'm very sceptical. Very.
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@marcinozga said in Apple Officially Releases their ARM M1 Powered Lineup:
That 16GB RAM limit though.... Previous gen Mac Mini went up to 64GB. And no 10Gbit ethernet
Ehhh USB4 we'll have adapters in no time.
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@scottalanmiller said in Apple Officially Releases their ARM M1 Powered Lineup:
And on PowerPC before that.
and Motorola before that!
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@Pete-S said in Apple Officially Releases their ARM M1 Powered Lineup:
For instance, ubuntu has had one or several mobile OS working on some devices. It's all ARM cpus. Have any of these ever worked on any Apple tablet or phone or watch or...?
Apple has API's for Byve. Technically I think we use them for some of our container run time stuff so we can call metal etc. You may never see Linux run bare metal on Macbooks but if it runs in a Virtual Machine that abstracts the hardware (IE in Fusion) do you really care?
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@StorageNinja said in Apple Officially Releases their ARM M1 Powered Lineup:
@Pete-S said in Apple Officially Releases their ARM M1 Powered Lineup:
For instance, ubuntu has had one or several mobile OS working on some devices. It's all ARM cpus. Have any of these ever worked on any Apple tablet or phone or watch or...?
Apple has API's for Byve. Technically I think we use them for some of our container run time stuff so we can call metal etc. You may never see Linux run bare metal on Macbooks but if it runs in a Virtual Machine that abstracts the hardware (IE in Fusion) do you really care?
Well, when the RAM options are so limited, lol.
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@scottalanmiller said in Apple Officially Releases their ARM M1 Powered Lineup:
@Pete-S said in Apple Officially Releases their ARM M1 Powered Lineup:
A hack to me is when you have to reverse engineer everything to get working drivers because the manufacturer wont share anything.
This very well may end up being the case. But it seems like something that they would have done in the past, but have thus far avoided. But this is a new scale of opportunity for them to be extra proprietary, so easily they will jump on it and take advantage of that.
However, I don't think that that is a sensible business model for them. They make 100% of their money selling the hardware and lose money on the software. Getting Linux folks wanting their hardware is purely a win for them. In theory, at least.
Will never happen.
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@StorageNinja said in Apple Officially Releases their ARM M1 Powered Lineup:
@marcinozga said in Apple Officially Releases their ARM M1 Powered Lineup:
That 16GB RAM limit though.... Previous gen Mac Mini went up to 64GB. And no 10Gbit ethernet
Ehhh USB4 we'll have adapters in no time.
And they will probably suck, USB overhead is crippling for anything that gets near it. Thundebolt to 10G ethernet will probably make more sense.
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@marcinozga said in Apple Officially Releases their ARM M1 Powered Lineup:
@StorageNinja said in Apple Officially Releases their ARM M1 Powered Lineup:
@marcinozga said in Apple Officially Releases their ARM M1 Powered Lineup:
That 16GB RAM limit though.... Previous gen Mac Mini went up to 64GB. And no 10Gbit ethernet
Ehhh USB4 we'll have adapters in no time.
And they will probably suck, USB overhead is crippling for anything that gets near it. Thundebolt to 10G ethernet will probably make more sense.
USB4 is TB3 compatible.
