Pre-Planning new domain and environment



  • Some encouraging news this morning on the startup that has been on hold due to legal matters for the last year. And while I don’t want to put the cart before the tree is cut down, I began some preliminary considerations on how this new environment may start.

    As it take a bit of time to spec, build and receive hardware, it seems that a hosted / cloud system seems the best place to start. A functional domain, file sharing, email and PBX can all be spun up in short order, allowing for the policies and security to be started. All since I have yet to hear I’d the building is cleared.

    That said, does it make sense to start this way? Of course it still has to be approved, but many business related services can be spun up in days rather than weeks.

    Many times I read or see of going physical to hosted or at least hybrid, rare to I see - but am pretty certain it is done - of starting hosted and going hybrid.

    I’ve managed to chew through a box of pencils - waiting for this to begin, its an exciting prospect, and one I have so wanted to share for a years time. It may be in the early stages of the ending legal battles - but I am hopeful that soon I’ll be able to share more details of the start-up.



  • @gjacobse said in Pre-Planning new domain and environment:

    Some encouraging news this morning on the startup that has been on hold due to legal matters for the last year. And while I don’t want to put the cart before the tree is cut down, I began some preliminary considerations on how this new environment may start.

    As it take a bit of time to spec, build and receive hardware, it seems that a hosted / cloud system seems the best place to start. A functional domain, file sharing, email and PBX can all be spun up in short order, allowing for the policies and security to be started. All since I have yet to hear I’d the building is cleared.

    That said, does it make sense to start this way? Of course it still has to be approved, but many business related services can be spun up in days rather than weeks.

    Many times I read or see of going physical to hosted or at least hybrid, rare to I see - but am pretty certain it is done - of starting hosted and going hybrid.

    I’ve managed to chew through a box of pencils - waiting for this to begin, its an exciting prospect, and one I have so wanted to share for a years time. It may be in the early stages of the ending legal battles - but I am hopeful that soon I’ll be able to share more details of the start-up.

    Isn't a functional domain, file sharing, email automatically solved by just signing up to M365?
    PBX either as a service or hosted on Vultr or whatever.

    Why are you even thinking about hybrid cloud?



  • It’s the business - designs will be large file- GB each. It’s also the requirement of the owner.



  • @gjacobse said in Pre-Planning new domain and environment:

    It’s the business - designs will be large file- GB each. It’s also the requirement of the owner.

    I think it's not hard to make those decisions. It's just about picking what's best for your needs. And separate your needs into different categories. For instance the needs of the administration of the company is not the same what the company actually does (what they produce).

    If you have a video editing company you probably need big local storage on-prem. But the email, file sharing office files etc can run on M365.

    Most big companies are hybrids. They have workloads in the cloud, SaaS, on-prem datacenter and often colo datacenter.

    Pick what best for your situation. Nothing wrong with starting on cloud and hosted and going to colo for instance. Using your own infrastructure makes sense if you have enough volume but not for a couple of small workloads.



  • Do you need a domain? That seems like a lot of expense that many businesses are skipping right over today.

    I mean you could do a SAMBA domain and save on all those licensing costs I suppose, but do you need LAN based security?

    What about putting everything except the large files into some cloudish system - like M365 or Zimbra (if Scott doesn't use Zimbra, then whatever they are using) a system that has all the parts in one package and all online. Heck, you could go with G-Suite.

    Then for local files a few choices - stand up your own box and go with NextCloud, or buy a NAS appliance like a Synology.

    Of course, you need to decide how you're managing local machines, assuming you need to manage them at all. Many RMM solutions support desktops now too, and then there's always Intune if you have the big bucks.



  • @gjacobse said in Pre-Planning new domain and environment:

    A functional domain, file sharing, email and PBX can all be spun up in short order, allowing for the policies and security to be started. All since I have yet to hear I’d the building is cleared.

    For a new computer, file sharing should almost always be cloud based. Maybe a service, maybe hosted, but not traditional file server in probably 80% of cases. Email, definitely a hosted non-Exchange service (Exchange exists essentially solely for incumbent situations where green field can't be considered.) Same with PBX, hosted only.

    That leaves only the domain and then the question becomes, in a modern environment, what's the expected function of a domain? Unless you have some super specific need that you've not mentioned, how did having a domain even get considered?



  • @gjacobse said in Pre-Planning new domain and environment:

    Many times I read or see of going physical to hosted or at least hybrid, rare to I see - but am pretty certain it is done - of starting hosted and going hybrid.

    What's the reason to consider hybrid? Nothing wrong with it, but again, 80% of the time hybrid is just for dealing with legacy kruft and doesn't have strategic value. It's a penalty, not a goal.



  • @gjacobse said in Pre-Planning new domain and environment:

    It’s the business - designs will be large file- GB each. It’s also the requirement of the owner.

    So it's a hobby, not a business. Businesses have one requirement: profits. Hobbies have requirements "as designated by the owner that don't reflect profits."

    This is absolutely key in defining how you interact. Before you do anything, make sure you go to the owner and ask him if he truly intended to inform you that you are not a business and that you are not IT and that your job is to do his bidding and not bring IT value to the table to maximum profits.

    Nothing wrong with that, but it's important to understand. True IT is an artefact of fiduciary responsibility. If he gives you mandates, then he's telling you that profits / IT / fiduciary responsibility aren't in play (at least not as the primary goal) and so you need every bit of IT guidance from him because he's running the show, not you, and based on factors you may not know.



  • @scottalanmiller said in Pre-Planning new domain and environment:

    @gjacobse said in Pre-Planning new domain and environment:

    Many times I read or see of going physical to hosted or at least hybrid, rare to I see - but am pretty certain it is done - of starting hosted and going hybrid.

    What's the reason to consider hybrid? Nothing wrong with it, but again, 80% of the time hybrid is just for dealing with legacy kruft and doesn't have strategic value. It's a penalty, not a goal.

    Multi state locations-



  • @scottalanmiller said in Pre-Planning new domain and environment:

    @gjacobse said in Pre-Planning new domain and environment:

    It’s the business - designs will be large file- GB each. It’s also the requirement of the owner.

    So it's a hobby, not a business. Businesses have one requirement: profits. Hobbies have requirements "as designated by the owner that don't reflect profits."

    No - not a hobby, there will be about a 100 initial employees.



  • @scottalanmiller said in Pre-Planning new domain and environment:

    @gjacobse said in Pre-Planning new domain and environment:

    A functional domain, file sharing, email and PBX can all be spun up in short order, allowing for the policies and security to be started. All since I have yet to hear I’d the building is cleared.

    That leaves only the domain and then the question becomes, in a modern environment, what's the expected function of a domain? Unless you have some super specific need that you've not mentioned, how did having a domain even get considered?

    Some specifics I still cannot discus - and since there isn’t a contract - no point.

    But, there is a heavy requirement for anti-intrusion (nothing to do with domains i know), and heavy security and limitations... serious “principal of least privilege”



  • @gjacobse said in Pre-Planning new domain and environment:

    @scottalanmiller said in Pre-Planning new domain and environment:

    @gjacobse said in Pre-Planning new domain and environment:

    Many times I read or see of going physical to hosted or at least hybrid, rare to I see - but am pretty certain it is done - of starting hosted and going hybrid.

    What's the reason to consider hybrid? Nothing wrong with it, but again, 80% of the time hybrid is just for dealing with legacy kruft and doesn't have strategic value. It's a penalty, not a goal.

    Multi state locations-

    Doesn't that make hybrid even less likely?



  • @gjacobse said in Pre-Planning new domain and environment:

    @scottalanmiller said in Pre-Planning new domain and environment:

    @gjacobse said in Pre-Planning new domain and environment:

    It’s the business - designs will be large file- GB each. It’s also the requirement of the owner.

    So it's a hobby, not a business. Businesses have one requirement: profits. Hobbies have requirements "as designated by the owner that don't reflect profits."

    No - not a hobby, there will be about a 100 initial employees.

    Can't have it both ways. Either he's mandating that he's a hobby, or he isn't. Number of employees is completely irrelevant. You stated that "business" was off the table. Is that not correct?



  • @gjacobse said in Pre-Planning new domain and environment:

    Some specifics I still cannot discus - and since there isn’t a contract - no point.

    Then there is really no way to be planning. Not in the slightest. Everything has a place, but almost everything you are mentioning are the "niche cases" where you'd need some serious justification for even talking about - unless it's a hobby and it's all to make someone feel like they have what appears to be a legacy business, instead of an actual one.



  • @gjacobse said in Pre-Planning new domain and environment:

    But, there is a heavy requirement for anti-intrusion (nothing to do with domains i know), and heavy security and limitations... serious “principal of least privilege”

    All reasons to rule out domains. Why mention this in the context of justifying a seemingly odd decisions, only to reinforce how odd it is?



  • @scottalanmiller said in Pre-Planning new domain and environment:

    @gjacobse said in Pre-Planning new domain and environment:

    @scottalanmiller said in Pre-Planning new domain and environment:

    @gjacobse said in Pre-Planning new domain and environment:

    It’s the business - designs will be large file- GB each. It’s also the requirement of the owner.

    So it's a hobby, not a business. Businesses have one requirement: profits. Hobbies have requirements "as designated by the owner that don't reflect profits."

    No - not a hobby, there will be about a 100 initial employees.

    Can't have it both ways. Either he's mandating that he's a hobby, or he isn't. Number of employees is completely irrelevant. You stated that "business" was off the table. Is that not correct?

    When / where did I say it was a hobby?



  • @gjacobse said in Pre-Planning new domain and environment:

    @scottalanmiller said in Pre-Planning new domain and environment:

    @gjacobse said in Pre-Planning new domain and environment:

    @scottalanmiller said in Pre-Planning new domain and environment:

    @gjacobse said in Pre-Planning new domain and environment:

    It’s the business - designs will be large file- GB each. It’s also the requirement of the owner.

    So it's a hobby, not a business. Businesses have one requirement: profits. Hobbies have requirements "as designated by the owner that don't reflect profits."

    No - not a hobby, there will be about a 100 initial employees.

    Can't have it both ways. Either he's mandating that he's a hobby, or he isn't. Number of employees is completely irrelevant. You stated that "business" was off the table. Is that not correct?

    When / where did I say it was a hobby?

    "It’s also the requirement of the owner."

    When you said that the owner was not considering the business needs but setting requirements. Clear as can be. It's a requirement. A requirement that isn't "do what's best for profits" means that he's overriding fiduciary needs and determining non-business goals are taking precedent. Ergo, a hobby.

    YOU didn't say it was a hobby, you repeated to us that he told you it was a hobby. The implication being that he was informing you, and then you us, that we are to take off our business/IT hats and put on our hobby hats, which is fine, because we need to know if the goal is good IT, or making an owner happy for needs only he can define.

    https://mangolassi.it/topic/22351/defining-the-hobby-business-vs-a-true-business



  • Okay- by your definition in the thread-

    Is this for a hobby or true business that makes profit on a product sold to corporation or retail

    This is very much a for profit business. And therefore - by your definition a true business



  • @gjacobse said in Pre-Planning new domain and environment:

    @scottalanmiller said in Pre-Planning new domain and environment:

    @gjacobse said in Pre-Planning new domain and environment:

    It’s the business - designs will be large file- GB each. It’s also the requirement of the owner.

    So it's a hobby, not a business. Businesses have one requirement: profits. Hobbies have requirements "as designated by the owner that don't reflect profits."

    No - not a hobby, there will be about a 100 initial employees.

    Remember - Scott calls 95% of all businesses hobbies... soooooo...



  • @gjacobse said in Pre-Planning new domain and environment:

    Okay- by your definition in the thread-

    Is this for a hobby or true business that makes profit on a product sold to corporation or retail

    This is very much a for profit business. And therefore - by your definition a true business

    That's not actually what that thread says.



  • @Dashrender said in Pre-Planning new domain and environment:

    @gjacobse said in Pre-Planning new domain and environment:

    @scottalanmiller said in Pre-Planning new domain and environment:

    @gjacobse said in Pre-Planning new domain and environment:

    It’s the business - designs will be large file- GB each. It’s also the requirement of the owner.

    So it's a hobby, not a business. Businesses have one requirement: profits. Hobbies have requirements "as designated by the owner that don't reflect profits."

    No - not a hobby, there will be about a 100 initial employees.

    Remember - Scott calls 95% of all businesses hobbies... soooooo...

    Because they are. Because they don't act as businesses and don't function to make profit.



  • @scottalanmiller said in Pre-Planning new domain and environment:

    @Dashrender said in Pre-Planning new domain and environment:

    @gjacobse said in Pre-Planning new domain and environment:

    @scottalanmiller said in Pre-Planning new domain and environment:

    @gjacobse said in Pre-Planning new domain and environment:

    It’s the business - designs will be large file- GB each. It’s also the requirement of the owner.

    So it's a hobby, not a business. Businesses have one requirement: profits. Hobbies have requirements "as designated by the owner that don't reflect profits."

    No - not a hobby, there will be about a 100 initial employees.

    Remember - Scott calls 95% of all businesses hobbies... soooooo...

    Because they are. Because they don't act as businesses and don't function to make profit.

    Oh, I didn't disagree... 🙂



  • @gjacobse said in Pre-Planning new domain and environment:

    Okay- by your definition in the thread-

    Is this for a hobby or true business that makes profit on a product sold to corporation or retail

    This is very much a for profit business. And therefore - by your definition a true business

    That's absolutely missing the point and totally misstating what I said. "Making profits" is not the same as "profits as the primary goal." He's been clear with you, and you with us, that profits aren't the final deciding factor. That he hopes for profits too is not in question. Nor is that it is a hobby.

    MY definition of business is that profits are the goal, not an artefact.



  • If it is like most hobby businesses, you can never tell the owner that that's how it is perceived, because they won't like it. Most hobby businesses have a goal of "feeling like a business", often because it seems cool or looks good to family, friends, or people you meet at the bar. In order to serve the "hobby", it has to convince people it isn't a hobby or the purpose has been defeated. So you'll rarely be able to actually talk honestly with the owner about it, and you'll always be stuck using "goal discussions" and working from things like "requirements" rather than "profits." If profits were the goal, additional requirements wouldn't really be needed.

    But once you know you are working with a "requirements" owner, you know it's a hobby and you know that he knows its a hobby. But we all lie to ourselves, it's part of the human experience. So while he knows, he's also trying to convince himself it isn't true, almost always. It's just how these things work.

    But while you can't have that frank conversation with him, you have to be honest with yourself or you're IT journey is going to be fraught with danger as you can't do honest, good IT without upsetting him and you can't make him happy if you do purely good IT.



  • I may understand what you are referencing. However- since I can’t say much about the company until a public announcement is made - and there will be one - maybe.

    I haven’t had the chance to speak with him and my proposed department head - so,..there that.

    I respect the owners stance, but wont have that information until then... and from that stand point, not important right now.

    But - I have every intention to do right by Enterprise IT standards.



  • Multi Gigibyte files we have had a devil of a time with Onedrive/Sharepoint and multi-gig AutoCAD files and ended up moving back on prem for them.



  • @jt1001001 said in Pre-Planning new domain and environment:

    Multi Gigibyte files we have had a devil of a time with Onedrive/Sharepoint and multi-gig AutoCAD files and ended up moving back on prem for them.

    Yup, these will be autocad files,..



  • @gjacobse said in Pre-Planning new domain and environment:

    But - I have every intention to do right by Enterprise IT standards.

    If this is the plan, then how do you intend to deal with the owner making IT decisions that might run counter to that.



  • @gjacobse said in Pre-Planning new domain and environment:

    I respect the owners stance, but wont have that information until then... and from that stand point, not important right now.

    But - I have every intention to do right by Enterprise IT standards.

    If the owner is giving requirements like - files must be stored locally onsite ...

    These these two statements don't really mesh.



  • @scottalanmiller said in Pre-Planning new domain and environment:

    @gjacobse said in Pre-Planning new domain and environment:

    But - I have every intention to do right by Enterprise IT standards.

    If this is the plan, then how do you intend to deal with the owner making IT decisions that might run counter to that.

    Exactly!

    Now, it likely will be that local storage for these CAD files will be necessary for performance issues, etc... but he shouldn't be mandating/requiring this. He shouldn't care where they are stored.

    But something like - personal need to have 15 second load time for 1 GB files because we are looking to reduce wait time of our staff, as that wait time for files to load costs us money... then we're setting the expectation without setting the how, because he shouldn't give a shit how it's done.