Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?
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@scottalanmiller said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
@wrx7m said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
If we don't have any of our servers running, no one can do any work except for chat and email. I don't have the exact cost, but I can say that it is expensive.
Try ballparking it. And ballpark the cost of the second server with all of the setup, risks, and licensing.
Downtown is usually shockingly cheap. Like, often 1-5% as much as people think that it is. Especially when things like chat and email keep working! Those are the core apps.
What functions stop in the first five minutes, hour, day if the server goes down?
Order processing will stop completely. If no one has access to the ERP and other LOB apps we use, they can't do much of anything.
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The rule of thumb is that downtime is cheap and HA is expensive. It's far from always the case. But it is generally true. It is a super rare company that feels even complete outages for a few hours in any significant way, and very rare that a company comes to a full stand still without their computers.
And if you can keep somethings still working, even better.
From the business side of things, we always want our time to sound 100x more expensive than it is. We talk in terms of our busiest day, not our average. We talk in terms of "lost money", when really it is normally "aggravation." We talk in terms of "outages" rather than "inconvenient temporary work arounds."
Mitigation techniques for an outage for most companies are pretty strong. Some work just keeps on going, at least for a while. Some functions keep going on. Some people switch to available tasks to stay busy. Some people take breaks or go home. Cost reduction in labour, insurance, power, etc. all offset outages. And most companies can simply shift tasks to another time. No company runs at 100% capacity 24x7, none. It's not sustainable. Some companies have very little capability to make up work later, but most can.
It's actually not uncommon for full day outages to end up having an "effectively zero dollar" cost when it is all said and done.
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@wrx7m said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
Order processing will stop completely. If no one has access to the ERP and other LOB apps we use, they can't do much of anything.
Sure, but what does that really cost you? I've worked in a lot of factories and even at IBM this would have cost us almost nothing... because over the course of a few days or maybe a couple weeks we'd just run slightly faster and catch up.
A single server outage is rarely more than a few hours, maybe a day at most. A second server, HA or just a second server, is to reduce that time from "several hours" to "minutes or maybe an hour tops." The average outage that HA protects against is actually just a few minutes. Full outages, like from total hardware failure, are crazy rare and if you are in a major city, part swaps are normally just a few hours.
Add on to that the risk that the HA system itself might cause an outage and it gets harder to justify.
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My question is - do you have actual HA because you have two servers?
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@scottalanmiller said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
@wrx7m said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
Order processing will stop completely. If no one has access to the ERP and other LOB apps we use, they can't do much of anything.
Sure, but what does that really cost you? I've worked in a lot of factories and even at IBM this would have cost us almost nothing... because over the course of a few days or maybe a couple weeks we'd just run slightly faster and catch up.
A single server outage is rarely more than a few hours, maybe a day at most. A second server, HA or just a second server, is to reduce that time from "several hours" to "minutes or maybe an hour tops." The average outage that HA protects against is actually just a few minutes. Full outages, like from total hardware failure, are crazy rare and if you are in a major city, part swaps are normally just a few hours.
Add on to that the risk that the HA system itself might cause an outage and it gets harder to justify.
We do 1000s of shipments from Amazon proper and for Amazon marketplace. If we don't ship on time, we lose prime badging and lower reviews. That equates to eventual loss of sales and even being shutdown by Amazon.
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@Dashrender said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
My question is - do you have actual HA because you have two servers?
No, just having 2 servers doesn't mean it is HA.
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@wrx7m said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
@Dashrender said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
My question is - do you have actual HA because you have two servers?
No, just having 2 servers doesn't mean it is HA.
LOL - so - do you have HA? or do you just have two servers cause of the 'eggs in one basket' thinking?
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@Dashrender said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
@wrx7m said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
@Dashrender said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
My question is - do you have actual HA because you have two servers?
No, just having 2 servers doesn't mean it is HA.
LOL - so - do you have HA? or do you just have two servers cause of the 'eggs in one basket' thinking?
I did have VCSA when that was a thing. It was discontinued and due to storage constraints, we had to move away from that. I am looking to do starwind on these though.
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@wrx7m said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
@Dashrender said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
@wrx7m said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
@Dashrender said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
My question is - do you have actual HA because you have two servers?
No, just having 2 servers doesn't mean it is HA.
LOL - so - do you have HA? or do you just have two servers cause of the 'eggs in one basket' thinking?
I did have VCSA when that was a thing. It was discontinued and due to storage constraints, we had to move away from that. I am looking to do starwind on these though.
What are you using for the HA setup? VMWare?
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@Dashrender said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
@wrx7m said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
@Dashrender said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
@wrx7m said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
@Dashrender said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
My question is - do you have actual HA because you have two servers?
No, just having 2 servers doesn't mean it is HA.
LOL - so - do you have HA? or do you just have two servers cause of the 'eggs in one basket' thinking?
I did have VCSA when that was a thing. It was discontinued and due to storage constraints, we had to move away from that. I am looking to do starwind on these though.
What are you using for the HA setup? VMWare?
I do use vmware for hypervisor and vcenter server, but doesn't starwind do HA?
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@wrx7m said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
We do 1000s of shipments from Amazon proper and for Amazon marketplace. If we don't ship on time, we lose prime badging and lower reviews. That equates to eventual loss of sales and even being shutdown by Amazon.
What kind of window of flexibility do you have? Minutes, hours, half a day?
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@wrx7m said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
@Dashrender said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
@wrx7m said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
@Dashrender said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
My question is - do you have actual HA because you have two servers?
No, just having 2 servers doesn't mean it is HA.
LOL - so - do you have HA? or do you just have two servers cause of the 'eggs in one basket' thinking?
I did have VCSA when that was a thing. It was discontinued and due to storage constraints, we had to move away from that. I am looking to do starwind on these though.
Only real way to go with two.
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@wrx7m said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
@Dashrender said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
@wrx7m said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
@Dashrender said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
@wrx7m said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
@Dashrender said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
My question is - do you have actual HA because you have two servers?
No, just having 2 servers doesn't mean it is HA.
LOL - so - do you have HA? or do you just have two servers cause of the 'eggs in one basket' thinking?
I did have VCSA when that was a thing. It was discontinued and due to storage constraints, we had to move away from that. I am looking to do starwind on these though.
What are you using for the HA setup? VMWare?
I do use vmware for hypervisor and vcenter server, but doesn't starwind do HA?
They do. Or a portion of it, technically. Requires both Starwind and VMware together to make it work in that situation.
Move away from VMware and you get HA at the platform layer for free.
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@scottalanmiller said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
@wrx7m said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
@Dashrender said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
@wrx7m said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
@Dashrender said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
@wrx7m said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
@Dashrender said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
My question is - do you have actual HA because you have two servers?
No, just having 2 servers doesn't mean it is HA.
LOL - so - do you have HA? or do you just have two servers cause of the 'eggs in one basket' thinking?
I did have VCSA when that was a thing. It was discontinued and due to storage constraints, we had to move away from that. I am looking to do starwind on these though.
What are you using for the HA setup? VMWare?
I do use vmware for hypervisor and vcenter server, but doesn't starwind do HA?
They do. Or a portion of it, technically. Requires both Starwind and VMware together to make it work in that situation.
Move away from VMware and you get HA at the platform layer for free.
Hmmm. What vmware tier do you have to have for that to function?
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@wrx7m said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
@scottalanmiller said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
@wrx7m said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
@Dashrender said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
@wrx7m said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
@Dashrender said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
@wrx7m said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
@Dashrender said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
My question is - do you have actual HA because you have two servers?
No, just having 2 servers doesn't mean it is HA.
LOL - so - do you have HA? or do you just have two servers cause of the 'eggs in one basket' thinking?
I did have VCSA when that was a thing. It was discontinued and due to storage constraints, we had to move away from that. I am looking to do starwind on these though.
What are you using for the HA setup? VMWare?
I do use vmware for hypervisor and vcenter server, but doesn't starwind do HA?
They do. Or a portion of it, technically. Requires both Starwind and VMware together to make it work in that situation.
Move away from VMware and you get HA at the platform layer for free.
Hmmm. What vmware tier do you have to have for that to function?
At a minimum, Essentials Plus. Not sure if more is needed or not. Lacking basic features like HA without paying huge premiums is one of the biggest reasons to avoid VMware. Their tech is great, but all the important bits that are great are unaffordable. You don't even get support until you get to the expensive tiers!
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@scottalanmiller said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
@wrx7m said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
We do 1000s of shipments from Amazon proper and for Amazon marketplace. If we don't ship on time, we lose prime badging and lower reviews. That equates to eventual loss of sales and even being shutdown by Amazon.
What kind of window of flexibility do you have? Minutes, hours, half a day?
Probably hours. Again, I am ball-parking based on my 9-year experience with the company.
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@scottalanmiller said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
@wrx7m said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
@scottalanmiller said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
@wrx7m said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
@Dashrender said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
@wrx7m said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
@Dashrender said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
@wrx7m said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
@Dashrender said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
My question is - do you have actual HA because you have two servers?
No, just having 2 servers doesn't mean it is HA.
LOL - so - do you have HA? or do you just have two servers cause of the 'eggs in one basket' thinking?
I did have VCSA when that was a thing. It was discontinued and due to storage constraints, we had to move away from that. I am looking to do starwind on these though.
What are you using for the HA setup? VMWare?
I do use vmware for hypervisor and vcenter server, but doesn't starwind do HA?
They do. Or a portion of it, technically. Requires both Starwind and VMware together to make it work in that situation.
Move away from VMware and you get HA at the platform layer for free.
Hmmm. What vmware tier do you have to have for that to function?
At a minimum, Essentials Plus. Not sure if more is needed or not. Lacking basic features like HA without paying huge premiums is one of the biggest reasons to avoid VMware. Their tech is great, but all the important bits that are great are unaffordable. You don't even get support until you get to the expensive tiers!
Cool. Already have Essentials Plus. Support for 6 sockets is about a grand a year. Maybe a tiny bit more.
Edit. Just looked up the invoice for this year - $1109, includes support.
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@wrx7m said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
@scottalanmiller said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
@wrx7m said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
We do 1000s of shipments from Amazon proper and for Amazon marketplace. If we don't ship on time, we lose prime badging and lower reviews. That equates to eventual loss of sales and even being shutdown by Amazon.
What kind of window of flexibility do you have? Minutes, hours, half a day?
Probably hours. Again, I am ball-parking based on my 9-year experience with the company.
Hours means no need for anything more than 4 hours same day response time from Dell.
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@JaredBusch said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
@wrx7m said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
@scottalanmiller said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
@wrx7m said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
We do 1000s of shipments from Amazon proper and for Amazon marketplace. If we don't ship on time, we lose prime badging and lower reviews. That equates to eventual loss of sales and even being shutdown by Amazon.
What kind of window of flexibility do you have? Minutes, hours, half a day?
Probably hours. Again, I am ball-parking based on my 9-year experience with the company.
Hours means no need for anything more than 4 hours same day response time from Dell.
Several years ago, I experienced Dell being out of stock of something and 4-hrs turned into next afternoon. How often does that happen?
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@wrx7m said in Comparing Server CPU Capabilities?:
Edit. Just looked up the invoice for this year - $1109, includes support.
It's not horrific, but $555 per host per year is a lot of money compared to free with everyone else. So perspective. Not a ton of money on one hand, but infinitely more than the alternative.
