KVM Desktop Setup Ideas
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@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@coliver said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@dafyre said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
KVM is also nice because you can continue using that machine as a regular desktop as well, if you need to do so. (Can't do that with VMware, Hyper-V or XenServer).
No one expects to use their Type 1 hypervisor as a desktop.
I have VMs on my local desktop with Hyper-V. Not production but they are good for a lab.
Is it your expectation to use XenServer as a desktop?
That's impossible, it doesn't offer that feature. Hence your confusion. You are thinking of something totally different.
No the fuck I'm not.
My point was very clear. Is the general expectation to use a Type 1 hypervisor as a desktop. No, generally it is not. If you need to use a Type 1 hypervisor as your daily driver you would skip past XenServer, Xen, ESXi and XCP-ng and look at alternatives.
But there is in no way the general expectation that a Type 1 hypervisor is and should also be capable of being a daily driver.
Two of the big three can be used as daily drivers though.
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@Obsolesce said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
Are we talking muggle vs magics here or people who understand what the hell they are working on and those who don't.
WTF
Well - Scott has now declared that we are only talking about actual technical personal (techies) not normal home users.
Every home user desktop/laptop comes with Win10 Home edition. Unless you specify otherwise, that's what you get. Even on gaming computers, they typically come with Home version.
Anyone installing Pro or specifically selecting Pro edition is doing it for Hyper-V or Domain joining, most likely someone in IT, software or web development, testing, etc...
That's true, other than AD support, Hyper-V in a desktop mode is the secondary reason for Windows Pro to exist.
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@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
If you need to use a Type 1 hypervisor as your daily driver you would skip past XenServer, Xen, ESXi and XCP-ng and look at alternatives.
Right, like KVM and Hyper-V. You would not look at Xen or ESXi as they don't support this.
Hence why no one is talking about those, only you. And hence why we know you are confused.
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@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
But there is in no way the general expectation that a Type 1 hypervisor is and should also be capable of being a daily driver.
This is where you go off the rails. Since this is common and everyone knows that this is a normal expectation, why would you state something that you know can't be true?
People need desktop virtualization all of the time. And in the modern market, there is essentially no reason to ever look at the only good Type 2, VirtualBox, because it is not nearly as good as Hyper-V or KVM. It's not as fast, or not as safe, and certainly not as easy.
The only reason anyone still considers Type 2 is because some people want Windows Home, and there is no Type 1 option.
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@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
And hence why we know you are confused.
okay
Finally.
So step back, realize the base facts you are missing...
- People need virtualization on the desktop.
- Type 1 is almost always the only reasonable way to do this.
- This is so common as to be a VERY general use case.
Now knowing these thing indisputable and obvious facts, what are you trying to say? And why bring up things like ESXi that have nothing to do with the conversation?
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@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
But there is in no way the general expectation that a Type 1 hypervisor is and should also be capable of being a daily driver.
This is where you go off the rails. Since this is common and everyone knows that this is a normal expectation, why would you state something that you know can't be true?
People need desktop virtualization all of the time. And in the modern market, there is essentially no reason to ever look at the only good Type 2, VirtualBox, because it is not nearly as good as Hyper-V or KVM. It's not as fast, or not as safe, and certainly not as easy.
The only reason anyone still considers Type 2 is because some people want Windows Home, and there is no Type 1 option.
I can see for Gamers who also need to do some VMs they may not want the Hyper-V overhead and would aim for type 2.... I hae no idea how much overhead Hyper-V actually introduces though.
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@coliver said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
But there is in no way the general expectation that a Type 1 hypervisor is and should also be capable of being a daily driver.
This is where you go off the rails. Since this is common and everyone knows that this is a normal expectation, why would you state something that you know can't be true?
People need desktop virtualization all of the time. And in the modern market, there is essentially no reason to ever look at the only good Type 2, VirtualBox, because it is not nearly as good as Hyper-V or KVM. It's not as fast, or not as safe, and certainly not as easy.
The only reason anyone still considers Type 2 is because some people want Windows Home, and there is no Type 1 option.
I can see for Gamers who also need to do some VMs they may not want the Hyper-V overhead and would aim for type 2.... I hae no idea how much overhead Hyper-V actually introduces though.
I thought that at one point, but it is essentially zero. Gaming is fine with it.
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@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
This is where you go off the rails. Since this is common and everyone knows that this is a normal expectation, why would you state something that you know can't be true?
Because there are two thought processes to be discussed, you're imaging that there is only 1.
The First: I need to be able to setup and operate VMs from a Type 1 Hypervisor that can be managed remotely
The later: I need a daily driver that I can setup and use to operate VMs for my workYou're implying that first option does not only exist, but only exist if you say you also need to use your Type 1 hypervisor on your hardware as a daily driver.
That is clearly not the case.
They are separate conversations.
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@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
This is where you go off the rails. Since this is common and everyone knows that this is a normal expectation, why would you state something that you know can't be true?
Because there are two thought processes to be discussed, you're imaging that there is only 1.
The First: I need to be able to setup and operate VMs from a Type 1 Hypervisor that can be managed remotely
that's not part of this discussion, though.
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@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
Finally.
That wasn't with me agreeing with you. I just left of the other half of the sentence.
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@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
You're implying that first option does not only exist, but only exist if you say you also need to use your Type 1 hypervisor on your hardware as a daily driver.
No, no one ever implied that. Absolutely no one. Ever.
You are thinking of something completely different.
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@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@coliver said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
But there is in no way the general expectation that a Type 1 hypervisor is and should also be capable of being a daily driver.
This is where you go off the rails. Since this is common and everyone knows that this is a normal expectation, why would you state something that you know can't be true?
People need desktop virtualization all of the time. And in the modern market, there is essentially no reason to ever look at the only good Type 2, VirtualBox, because it is not nearly as good as Hyper-V or KVM. It's not as fast, or not as safe, and certainly not as easy.
The only reason anyone still considers Type 2 is because some people want Windows Home, and there is no Type 1 option.
I can see for Gamers who also need to do some VMs they may not want the Hyper-V overhead and would aim for type 2.... I hae no idea how much overhead Hyper-V actually introduces though.
I thought that at one point, but it is essentially zero. Gaming is fine with it.
I think they do native GPU passthrough behind the scenes. So the biggest bottleneck is pretty much non-existent.
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@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
This is where you go off the rails. Since this is common and everyone knows that this is a normal expectation, why would you state something that you know can't be true?
Because there are two thought processes to be discussed, you're imaging that there is only 1.
The First: I need to be able to setup and operate VMs from a Type 1 Hypervisor that can be managed remotely
that's not part of this discussion, though.
Yes the hell it is. It has to be to make a determination of if you should be using a Type 1 or Type 2 and if you settle on Type 1 it changes the list of available options!
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@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
The later: I need a daily driver that I can setup and use to operate VMs for my work
Correct, this is one of the two general cases that exist, and the only one addressed here in any form.
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@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
This is where you go off the rails. Since this is common and everyone knows that this is a normal expectation, why would you state something that you know can't be true?
Because there are two thought processes to be discussed, you're imaging that there is only 1.
The First: I need to be able to setup and operate VMs from a Type 1 Hypervisor that can be managed remotely
that's not part of this discussion, though.
Yes the hell it is. It has to be to make a determination of if you should be using a Type 1 or Type 2 and if you settle on Type 1 it changes the list of available options!
Nope, because Type 2 isn't relevant here. Why are you thinking about it at all?
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Is type 2 possible? Sure. Would it make sense? Obviously not. So why mention something so silly?
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@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
This is where you go off the rails. Since this is common and everyone knows that this is a normal expectation, why would you state something that you know can't be true?
Because there are two thought processes to be discussed, you're imaging that there is only 1.
The First: I need to be able to setup and operate VMs from a Type 1 Hypervisor that can be managed remotely
that's not part of this discussion, though.
Yes the hell it is. It has to be to make a determination of if you should be using a Type 1 or Type 2 and if you settle on Type 1 it changes the list of available options!
Nope, because Type 2 isn't relevant here. Why are you thinking about it at all?
Because, to make a consideration of the "I need to create VMs to dev stuff on" Type 2 is still a valid option.
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@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
Is type 2 possible? Sure. Would it make sense? Obviously not. So why mention something so silly?
Silly is what we deal with all day long. You can't just say that something doesn't exist. Even though as an option it is one you would never recommend.
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@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
This is where you go off the rails. Since this is common and everyone knows that this is a normal expectation, why would you state something that you know can't be true?
Because there are two thought processes to be discussed, you're imaging that there is only 1.
The First: I need to be able to setup and operate VMs from a Type 1 Hypervisor that can be managed remotely
that's not part of this discussion, though.
Yes the hell it is. It has to be to make a determination of if you should be using a Type 1 or Type 2 and if you settle on Type 1 it changes the list of available options!
Nope, because Type 2 isn't relevant here. Why are you thinking about it at all?
Because, to make a consideration of the "I need to create VMs to dev stuff on" Type 2 is still a valid option.
POssible, yes. Valid, no. He wants Linux as his main desktop, there is no valid use case where you'd want a Type 2 in that condition.
So we weren't wasting time by mentioning that something else is "possible" when it has no use case to bring up.
