How to take advantage of virtualization. Major products get updated



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  • I'm happy to have another article but there are a few points that are clearly wrong, and I'm only at "Hyper-V" within the article.

    Its free edition is only available for Windows VMs and that too without GUI.
    

    All editions of Hyper-V are free, only if you choose to Install Windows Server # and enable the Hyper-V role are you forced to purchase a license. And even here, Hyper-V is free, it's Windows Dom0 that you're paying for in this case.

    This approach is generally looked down upon when deploying as well as it causes licensing complications especially if you have any DR plans.



  • With KVM, the cons while not untrue aren't entirely accurate.

    For your VM backup options every solution that exist like Veeam or any other agent based solution, including open source ones like UrBackup are available to use.

    Yes the skills required to use KVM on a production level is different, but it is no different than managing any other Hypervisor. You wouldn't have a day 1 Intern manage your server fleet, period.

    Training and familiarity of the tools are required for any hypervisor.



  • The same thing for Citrix XenServer as for KVM exist. There is an included management interface (XenCenter) which is a point and click gui.

    Nothing overly complicated about that, power on, power off, restart etc.

    The free edition is limited, which sucks Citrix is trying to keep market traction somehow, and this move is a blow. The alternative to this would be to use XCP-ng as your Hypervisor if you want to use a Xen based hypervisor that feels like XenServer.

    With it you also have many backup solutions, like Veeam or Xen Orchestra.

    And again management comfort and training on any solution is required so I don't see how this is any more complicated than using any of the other Hypervisors.



  • Non-native English speaker I take it? It can run on both Windows and Linux VMs. should be It can run both Windows and Linux VMs. All of the hypervisors mentioned are Type-1, then don't run on anything.



  • All of the small errors @DustinB3403 mentioned really look bad in the comparison section.

    • Run on both Windows and Linux VMs.

    So far so good. Having the on isn't correct here, but I'm giving the benefit of the doubt here.

    • Some sort of free version is available in each of these four products.

    Also good.

    • Complex licensing models in case of VMware ESXi and Microsoft Hyper-V.

    Looking good so far.

    • Strong management skills are required in case of Red Hat KVM and Citrix Xen Server.

    KVM and Xen Server are easier to manage than Hyper-V. Hyper-V requires an AD domain to be "easy", and that's adding a whole layer of complexity on top. We've been over running Hyper-V without a domain here, and it's a whole big process to get settings and permissions correct that no other hypervisor has to deal with.

    • Now, their differences are given below:
    • Red Hat KVM provides poor backup options whereas rest of the three virtualization products come with very good backup solutions.

    KVM lacks one backup feature. Nothing magically prevents traditional backup methods from working, which means good backup solutions are available on all platforms.

    • Out of these four products, only Citrix Xen Server comes with In Memory Read Caching feature.

    Ok. Did Karim actually see a performance improvement here? I'm genuinely curious.

    • Microsoft Hyper-V is the only virtualization product that provides a full set of native Microsoft market products.

    While technically true, licensing limitations make these native products a never use in the real world item in most cases.

    • Vmware ESXi provides VVOLS and VAAI technologies that no other virtualization products provide.

    Nobody else calls it the same thing, but the same functionality is available is always available to use.

    I'll just stop here. I know @StarWind_Software is wanting to tout the new software management tool. I don't think this article is a good way to do it.

    Yes, the new management tool should be talked about. It's is or is going to be a nice way to manage environments with multiple platforms running.



  • @dustinb3403 said in How to take advantage of virtualization. Major products get updated:

    I'm happy to have another article but there are a few points that are clearly wrong, and I'm only at "Hyper-V" within the article.

    Its free edition is only available for Windows VMs and that too without GUI.
    

    All editions of Hyper-V are free, only if you choose to Install Windows Server # and enable the Hyper-V role are you forced to purchase a license. And even here, Hyper-V is free, it's Windows Dom0 that you're paying for in this case.

    This approach is generally looked down upon when deploying as well as it causes licensing complications especially if you have any DR plans.

    Wow, that's not just wrong, that's like "I'm not familiar with virtualization at all" wrong. Those are such basic "noob" misconceptions. Even on places like SW that's not acceptable.



  • What I just noticed even more so is that Hyper-V "free" only runs Windows VMs. Which is completely wrong, it'll run linux, BSD, Mac and Windows without issue or complaint.

    So there is even more wrong with the article than what was just in my head as I was typing. . .



  • How about this...

    0_1533220636060_Screenshot from 2018-08-02 09-37-10.png

    Not only is the writing not in correct English, every SINGLE point is wrong. Every. Single. One.



  • @dustinb3403 said in How to take advantage of virtualization. Major products get updated:

    What I just noticed even more so is that Hyper-V "free" only runs Windows VMs. Which is completely wrong, it'll run linux, BSD, Mac and Windows without issue or complaint.

    Yup, there is no limit whatsoever. He's just making this stuff up. It's like he went to SW and read every common misconception that people are mocked for believing and wrote them into an article.



  • Look, he didn't even get the product name right!!!

    0_1533220877119_Screenshot from 2018-08-02 09-40-57.png



  • @dustinb3403 said in How to take advantage of virtualization. Major products get updated:

    So there is even more wrong with the article than what was just in my head as I was typing. . .

    Other than a few product names right, I've yet to find one thing that IS correct in the article, literally. Not one thing correct yet.



  • 0_1533221067740_Screenshot from 2018-08-02 09-44-18.png

    He didn't even correctly copy this. It's Kernel-based Virtual (not virtualization) Machine.



  • I'm getting the article pulled and rewritten. I reached out to make sure someone saw it.



  • @dustinb3403 said in How to take advantage of virtualization. Major products get updated:

    Yes the skills required to use KVM on a production level is different, but it is no different than managing any other Hypervisor.

    Yup, it's easier to use in every way I can think of. You don't easily get agentless backups for the VMs, but that doesn't have to be a deal breaker. Other than that, KVM is easier and better.



  • @obsolesce said in How to take advantage of virtualization. Major products get updated:

    @dustinb3403 said in How to take advantage of virtualization. Major products get updated:

    Yes the skills required to use KVM on a production level is different, but it is no different than managing any other Hypervisor.

    Yup, it's easier to use in every way I can think of. You don't easily get agentless backups for the VMs, but that doesn't have to be a deal breaker. Other than that, KVM is easier and better.

    I would question this as a "truth" is might be easier and better but you have to evaluate and discuss the options before just blindly picking a statement like that and applying it.



  • @scottalanmiller said in How to take advantage of virtualization. Major products get updated:

    I'm getting the article pulled and rewritten. I reached out to make sure someone saw it.

    Why are they letting people write articles on subjects they are completely unfamiliar with?



  • @obsolesce said in How to take advantage of virtualization. Major products get updated:

    @dustinb3403 said in How to take advantage of virtualization. Major products get updated:

    Yes the skills required to use KVM on a production level is different, but it is no different than managing any other Hypervisor.

    Yup, it's easier to use in every way I can think of. You don't easily get agentless backups for the VMs, but that doesn't have to be a deal breaker. Other than that, KVM is easier and better.

    I just did a new install this week and it turned out actually easier than even VMware at this point! Which is amazing because Vmware is so easy.



  • @obsolesce said in How to take advantage of virtualization. Major products get updated:

    @dustinb3403 said in How to take advantage of virtualization. Major products get updated:

    Yes the skills required to use KVM on a production level is different, but it is no different than managing any other Hypervisor.

    Yup, it's easier to use in every way I can think of. You don't easily get agentless backups for the VMs, but that doesn't have to be a deal breaker. Other than that, KVM is easier and better.

    It does actually get agentless backup, it's just not a very good one. I have agentless backups on my KVM systems. Better than VMware Free, not anything close to Hyper-V.



  • For those new to KVM: What is the general consensus on having a Fedora-based KVM host that boots and runs from a SSD but uses a software RAID on spinning rust for the VM storage?



  • @obsolesce I was wondering about that. When she introduced the writer she did so saying he had some mvp title or something like that. He should know precisely what is wrong and right with the technologies he was talking about. He reminded me, instead, of a plain writer who tried to research something for an article and just got it all wrong.



  • @brandon220 said in How to take advantage of virtualization. Major products get updated:

    For those new to KVM: What is the general consensus on having a Fedora-based KVM host that boots and runs from a SSD but uses a software RAID on spinning rust for the VM storage?

    That is one option. Why not make the software raid bootable, install Fedora on a small partition, and use the SSD as cache for the LVM volumes?



  • @brandon220 completely wrong. Instead, use a couple of spinning rust for the Hypervisor and the SSD for the VMs.



  • @brandon220 said in How to take advantage of virtualization. Major products get updated:

    For those new to KVM: What is the general consensus on having a Fedora-based KVM host that boots and runs from a SSD but uses a software RAID on spinning rust for the VM storage?

    In theory you want fast disks were the workload is. So if in doubt just use fast disks for vm not for the hypervisor



  • I have some small SSDs that are not big enough to store VMs but would run a host machine very efficiently. I realize you want the performance where the workload is. Lets forget about the SSD for a minute.... Is software RAID in Linux acceptable to use? I always use hardware RAID controllers in servers but wanted to venture into trying software RAID.



  • @brandon220 said in How to take advantage of virtualization. Major products get updated:

    I have some small SSDs that are not big enough to store VMs but would run a host machine very efficiently. I realize you want the performance where the workload is. Lets forget about the SSD for a minute.... Is software RAID in Linux acceptable to use? I always use hardware RAID controllers in servers but wanted to venture into trying software RAID.

    The host doesn't do anything, so SSDs have no benefit besides making things go faster that aren't VM related... such as faster Fedora updates, which are already fast... and other minor things.

    Software RAID is good in Linux. I'd use LVM.



  • @brandon220 said in How to take advantage of virtualization. Major products get updated:

    I have some small SSDs that are not big enough to store VMs but would run a host machine very efficiently. I realize you want the performance where the workload is. Lets forget about the SSD for a minute.... Is software RAID in Linux acceptable to use? I always use hardware RAID controllers in servers but wanted to venture into trying software RAID.

    Software RAID is acceptable to use anywhere that the people managing have the skills to do so.

    That is why Hardware RAID is everywhere. It takes no skills. You put in disks and configure. After configured, there is nothing to ever do again even on disk failure as most hardware RAID systems have blind swap capabilities.



  • @brandon220 said in How to take advantage of virtualization. Major products get updated:

    I have some small SSDs that are not big enough to store VMs but would run a host machine very efficiently. I realize you want the performance where the workload is. Lets forget about the SSD for a minute.... Is software RAID in Linux acceptable to use? I always use hardware RAID controllers in servers but wanted to venture into trying software RAID.

    Assuming oyu have 3 of them, put them in a RAID5 and run some small workloads on them.



  • I plan on setting this up in the lab soon. dm-cache also sounds interesting. I've never touched software RAID because 95% of my environment has been MS for a long time. Always have gone the hw raid route.



  • @scottalanmiller said in How to take advantage of virtualization. Major products get updated:

    @obsolesce said in How to take advantage of virtualization. Major products get updated:

    @dustinb3403 said in How to take advantage of virtualization. Major products get updated:

    Yes the skills required to use KVM on a production level is different, but it is no different than managing any other Hypervisor.

    Yup, it's easier to use in every way I can think of. You don't easily get agentless backups for the VMs, but that doesn't have to be a deal breaker. Other than that, KVM is easier and better.

    I just did a new install this week and it turned out actually easier than even VMware at this point! Which is amazing because Vmware is so easy.

    Installing Fedora so you can setup KVM was a bit of a challenge.


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