SW rant time
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@dustinb3403 said in SW rant time:
@scottalanmiller said in SW rant time:
The "right to be forgotten" is problematic because, for example, what if ML takes a screenshot of SW and posts it here. You expect that deleting the account on SW should automatically trigger a removal of content here?
Yes and no. If there is value in a post (say I cross posted before my post was deleted by a mod) and I wanted it here.
If I posted information regarding my employer by mistake, and deleted that information. Someone has the ability to go into google cache and retrieve that information, for a duration.
Eventually though that information gets deleted.
No, it does not. Not if people quote it, for example. Your understanding of the Internet and storage systems is fundamentally incorrect, leading you to odd conclusions.
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For example, the WayBack machine does not cache "for a time". Nor does SW or ML. And Google's cache is not temporary, it just might not all be displayed.
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Also, important to understand, is that Europe's Right to be Forgotten violates the US' Freedom of Speech. The two cannot exist in the same jurisdiction. So you have a fundamental issue with the law that you are quoting - it applies only to servers in Europe and only under certain conditions and has nothing to do with the Internet or how things work.
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@dustinb3403 said in SW rant time:
"There is opposition to further recognition of the right to be forgotten in the United States as commentators argue that it will contravene the right to freedom of speech and freedom of expression, or will constitute censorship, thus potentially breaching peoples' constitutionally protected right to freedom of expression in the United States Constitution.[66] These criticisms are consistent with the proposal that the only information that can be removed by user's request is content that they themselves uploaded.[clarification needed][66][67]"
And?
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@dustinb3403 said in SW rant time:
@scottalanmiller said in SW rant time:
@dustinb3403 said in SW rant time:
"There is opposition to further recognition of the right to be forgotten in the United States as commentators argue that it will contravene the right to freedom of speech and freedom of expression, or will constitute censorship, thus potentially breaching peoples' constitutionally protected right to freedom of expression in the United States Constitution.[66] These criticisms are consistent with the proposal that the only information that can be removed by user's request is content that they themselves uploaded.[clarification needed][66][67]"
And?
The correlation of "I'm closing my account" would then tie into "and I expect everything I've ever posted here to go away with it"
Nope, you've provided absolutely nothing of that nature. It is not logical, not implied, and not stated... anywhere.
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And my point was that it is exactly the opposite. Closing an account without removing the contents guarantees that you have voluntarily given up the ability to provide proof of ownership of that content.
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@dustinb3403 said in SW rant time:
@scottalanmiller said in SW rant time:
And my point was that it is exactly the opposite. Closing an account without removing the contents guarantees that you have voluntarily given up the ability to provide proof of ownership of that content.
You are missing my point then.
Let's look at this from another perspective.
Joe has an email account on Yahoo, and he's sick and tired of the security breaches etc. So he opts to close his account.
Should Yahoo be allowed to retain all of his email that he's sent / received / forward forever?
Absolutely.
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@dustinb3403 said in SW rant time:
Is the onus on Joe to go in and delete everything that is in the account before closing the account to ensure nothing of the email exists?
Obviously there is.
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@dustinb3403 said in SW rant time:
Or would Joe be rightful in thinking that if I'm ending a relationship with a service provider, that all of the content I supplied / received from that supplier should also go away?
It would be insane for him to think such a crazy, illogical thing. Especially when we aren't talking about email, but talking about published works. The right to be forgotten doesn't apply to things like email, but to things like public posts. Like this one.
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@dustinb3403 said in SW rant time:
@scottalanmiller said in SW rant time:
@dustinb3403 said in SW rant time:
@scottalanmiller said in SW rant time:
And my point was that it is exactly the opposite. Closing an account without removing the contents guarantees that you have voluntarily given up the ability to provide proof of ownership of that content.
You are missing my point then.
Let's look at this from another perspective.
Joe has an email account on Yahoo, and he's sick and tired of the security breaches etc. So he opts to close his account.
Should Yahoo be allowed to retain all of his email that he's sent / received / forward forever?
Absolutely.
Why do you think so?
Because, logic. Common sense.
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@dustinb3403 said in SW rant time:
@scottalanmiller said in SW rant time:
@dustinb3403 said in SW rant time:
Or would Joe be rightful in thinking that if I'm ending a relationship with a service provider, that all of the content I supplied / received from that supplier should also go away?
It would be insane for him to think such a crazy, illogical thing. Especially when we aren't talking about email, but talking about published works. The right to be forgotten doesn't apply to things like email, but to things like public posts. Like this one.
The works are still published, on a server in the control of a business that could, at will whenever dig up that kind of information.
Email is not publishing.
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Compare to the real world.... if you have an advertising agency, and you shut down the company, do you expect that all ads you've had run in magazines to delete themselves over time?
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@dustinb3403 said in SW rant time:
@scottalanmiller said in SW rant time:
Compare to the real world.... if you have an advertising agency, and you shut down the company, do you expect that all ads you've had run in magazines to delete themselves over time?
No, but you would have the expectation that eventually, you'd be forgotten about.
The reason you use billboards for advertising is the chance that the billboard will not be resold to a new advertiser for months/years. You use them because you want to be remembered for so long as you possibly can. Internet just takes it to the next level, nothing ever goes away.
