When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator
-
Although I have to say, my advice has often been used by random people I meet in life before they start their careers and have no idea who I am (or knew me before I had any real job and was bussing tables to pay the bills) and it pretty much always worked for them, too.
-
@scottalanmiller Perhaps I should have been more specific in saying that I was referring to IT folks taking your career advice. I mean, those that ask for it and apply it should have at least some level of success, but I doubt many will have the same level as you have FWIW. I'm not even necessarily trying to flatter, but if you're great at something, it's no less rude to fail to acknowledge and talk about it as it is to fail to acknowledge and talk about how someone is failing and can do better when it's recognized imo.
-
@scottalanmiller Perhaps I could ask you this question: Because I am an SMB IT Admin, what might you suggest I do in our current configuration to maximize bang for the buck? Or would you rather a new thread be started to deal with that?
-
@scottalanmiller said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
@irj said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
In fact the owner bought a new private jet... This was back in 2010 so it was pretty damn expensive.
Thankfully they are cheaper now
lol. I was referring to the robot. I believe it was like $6k-$8k. He constantly made it patrol the halls of the business and people used to despise it as no one get increases and people were getting laid off.
-
...
-
We've had this discussion before @scottalanmiller. You're fighting common usage, and you're not going to win. In SMB hiring a Systems Administrator is someone who is the equivalent of what you call an IT Admin. The problem is that common usage dictates that a SysAdmin > IT Admin (assuming the latter is even on the radar). So for an SMB job seeker to not use SysAdmin, because that is appropriate for the job being hired for even if it is not 100% technically accurate, is to automatically penalize themselves in that specific market.
I'm not sure which windmills you're trying to take down, but in the SMB market you're not going to make headway. These discussions devolve, and the only thing that happens is that job seekers like @wirestyle22 end up confused and discouraged. You're not wrong in the most accurate sense, but I don't know that you're helping.
-
@tirendir said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
@scottalanmiller Perhaps I should have been more specific in saying that I was referring to IT folks taking your career advice. I mean, those that ask for it and apply it should have at least some level of success, but I doubt many will have the same level as you have FWIW. I'm not even necessarily trying to flatter, but if you're great at something, it's no less rude to fail to acknowledge and talk about it as it is to fail to acknowledge and talk about how someone is failing and can do better when it's recognized imo.
I agree, however you also have to accept that if the question is "how do I become successful" you can't start saying "don't listen to successful people because they are the exception, not the rule." It doesn't work that way. that doesn't mean that you can just copy what everyone that is successful does, you can't be ultra rich just by copying Bill Gates. But there are patterns to success and a common thing I've seen in IT is people intentionally avoiding recommendations and paths of success because they see people who have already been successful as not applicable.
It's like asking how to take a journey from NY to LA and ignoring any advice from the people who have already arrived in LA because "they are already there and don't relate to where I am", ignoring the fact that they just came from there and no one else has the ability to provide that insight.
-
@scottalanmiller The one comment I would put forth in response is that "success" has various meanings to various people. What I consider success, you consider success, and any other individual consider successful is unlikely to coincide past a point. I dare say most would likely agree that Bill Gates is successful, but most would probably not likely suggest that attaining his level of success is remotely necessary to be successful either.
While asking how to take a journey from NY to LA and asking for advice, it's worth pointing out that there are a whole lot of ways to get from NY to LA. Just because your way works doesn't mean there aren't lots of other ways as well. Sure some may be less efficient, while there may also be some methods that are even more efficient. The question is how important the goal is versus the journey in my mind to the individual taking the journey. I do agree that the "they're already there so they don't relate" argument doesn't hold water at face value; however if you consider that of the myriad of methods and routes that exist for making such a journey, not all are accessible to everyone all the time for any number of reasons that may or may not be foreseeable from the start of the trek that make a particular plan unviable for many, then it makes more sense why such an argument has some merit.
It's dumb to ask for advice or opinions and then ignore them entirely, I agree. However it's also impractical to assume that all things are equal either, as we know that's not true.
-
@tirendir said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
@scottalanmiller The one comment I would put forth in response is that "success" has various meanings to various people. What I consider success, you consider success, and any other individual consider successful is unlikely to coincide past a point.
I was successful today because I got out of bed on my own, got dressed and went to work. What have you done today?!
-
@dustinb3403 I talked to some smart people and got some roadblocks sorted and solved at work. Also, I got a new chair for the first time in 4 years. ^.^
-
@tirendir said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
@dustinb3403 I talked to some smart people and got some roadblocks sorted and solved at work. Also, I got a new chair for the first time in 4 years. ^.^
Doesn't count, you could've done that from home. My success is greater than yours.
-
@dustinb3403 I wish I could work from home more, but one step at a time.
-
@scottalanmiller said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
@tirendir said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
@scottalanmiller Perhaps I should have been more specific in saying that I was referring to IT folks taking your career advice. I mean, those that ask for it and apply it should have at least some level of success, but I doubt many will have the same level as you have FWIW. I'm not even necessarily trying to flatter, but if you're great at something, it's no less rude to fail to acknowledge and talk about it as it is to fail to acknowledge and talk about how someone is failing and can do better when it's recognized imo.
I agree, however you also have to accept that if the question is "how do I become successful" you can't start saying "don't listen to successful people because they are the exception, not the rule." It doesn't work that way. that doesn't mean that you can just copy what everyone that is successful does, you can't be ultra rich just by copying Bill Gates. But there are patterns to success and a common thing I've seen in IT is people intentionally avoiding recommendations and paths of success because they see people who have already been successful as not applicable.
It's like asking how to take a journey from NY to LA and ignoring any advice from the people who have already arrived in LA because "they are already there and don't relate to where I am", ignoring the fact that they just came from there and no one else has the ability to provide that insight.
I'm not sure what you're getting at. I might be able to infer it, but your metaphor seems somewhat disconnected from what I stated, at least on the face of it.
-
@kelly said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
@scottalanmiller said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
@tirendir said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
@scottalanmiller Perhaps I should have been more specific in saying that I was referring to IT folks taking your career advice. I mean, those that ask for it and apply it should have at least some level of success, but I doubt many will have the same level as you have FWIW. I'm not even necessarily trying to flatter, but if you're great at something, it's no less rude to fail to acknowledge and talk about it as it is to fail to acknowledge and talk about how someone is failing and can do better when it's recognized imo.
I agree, however you also have to accept that if the question is "how do I become successful" you can't start saying "don't listen to successful people because they are the exception, not the rule." It doesn't work that way. that doesn't mean that you can just copy what everyone that is successful does, you can't be ultra rich just by copying Bill Gates. But there are patterns to success and a common thing I've seen in IT is people intentionally avoiding recommendations and paths of success because they see people who have already been successful as not applicable.
It's like asking how to take a journey from NY to LA and ignoring any advice from the people who have already arrived in LA because "they are already there and don't relate to where I am", ignoring the fact that they just came from there and no one else has the ability to provide that insight.
I'm not sure what you're getting at. I might be able to infer it, but your metaphor seems somewhat disconnected from what I stated, at least on the face of it.
It wasn't a response to you
-
@tirendir said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
@scottalanmiller Perhaps I could ask you this question: Because I am an SMB IT Admin, what might you suggest I do in our current configuration to maximize bang for the buck? Or would you rather a new thread be started to deal with that?
Sorry, been traveling. Finally at a computer again. New thread would be ideal. I'm sure we could make a huge discussion about that specific thing.
-
@kelly said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
We've had this discussion before @scottalanmiller. You're fighting common usage, and you're not going to win. In SMB hiring a Systems Administrator is someone who is the equivalent of what you call an IT Admin. The problem is that common usage dictates that a SysAdmin > IT Admin (assuming the latter is even on the radar). So for an SMB job seeker to not use SysAdmin, because that is appropriate for the job being hired for even if it is not 100% technically accurate, is to automatically penalize themselves in that specific market.
I'm not sure which windmills you're trying to take down, but in the SMB market you're not going to make headway. These discussions devolve, and the only thing that happens is that job seekers like @wirestyle22 end up confused and discouraged. You're not wrong in the most accurate sense, but I don't know that you're helping.
In this case the SMB is fighting honest, common and obvious usage. I'm only pointing out the industry usage. If SMBs use this, they know that they are faking it, the admins know that they are faking it and hiring managers know that it was fake.
-
@tirendir said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
@scottalanmiller The one comment I would put forth in response is that "success" has various meanings to various people. What I consider success, you consider success, and any other individual consider successful is unlikely to coincide past a point.
I've never found this to be true. While people might make it hard to write a definition of success, people generally agree on it when they see it.
-
@tirendir said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
It's dumb to ask for advice or opinions and then ignore them entirely, I agree. However it's also impractical to assume that all things are equal either, as we know that's not true.
The difference is... learning from processes that regularly and reliably result in desired results vs. learning from processes that rarely, if ever, achieve desired results.
-
@scottalanmiller You used the key phrase in your response: desired results. While great success is generally pretty widely agreed upon, specifics vary widely because desired results vary widely from individual to individual. It's difficult to argue that everyone desires the same results, when that doesn't bear out as the case on a regular basis in reality.
In spite of the fact that great success is pretty widely acknowledged as such by most, the bar for success varies very wildly all over the spectrum, to the point that many people even consider what you or I might consider a failure to be a modest success. It's really not so black and white as essentially that desired results = yours or my definition of success when desire is such a subjective term. Just because you or I want a certain level or type of success doesn't in any way mean that the level or type of success that everyone wants is remotely identical, even though there is some level of commonality present in all likelihood.
Some like myself have no interest in what most consider great success, because I know what I want and don't want out of life. What most people would consider great success doesn't interest me, because corporate ladders and large multiples of dollar signs are of little consequence in my mind. I only need as much money as I need to afford the lifestyle I'm content with. Anything more is unnecessary and unworthy of the investment required to pursue it to me. Not saying that what you do or have done isn't successful Scott, far from it. However, that doesn't mean that if you were to deem my choices as unsuccessful ones, that you would be correct any more than if I said you were unsuccessful because I disagreed with your definition since success is defined as: The accomplishment of an aim or purpose.
-
@tirendir said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
In spite of the fact that great success is pretty widely acknowledged as such by most, the bar for success varies very wildly all over the spectrum, to the point that many people even consider what you or I might consider a failure to be a modest success.
I don't think of it as a bar, per se, but more about different values. You value location more than I do, for example, while I value money more than you.
However, I'd argue that with good "success" you can have more control over your location and your income and have less risk that you will lose control of that.
