Buying vs Saving Economic Theory
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@Dashrender said in Buying vs Saving Economic Theory:
@coliver said in Buying vs Saving Economic Theory:
@Dashrender said in Buying vs Saving Economic Theory:
@scottalanmiller said in Buying vs Saving Economic Theory:
@Dashrender said in Buying vs Saving Economic Theory:
@scottalanmiller said in Buying vs Saving Economic Theory:
@Dashrender said in Buying vs Saving Economic Theory:
Of course, how do you handle the transition of the current middle class, or even the wealthy - i.e. the beach houses, etc... you're putting 98% all on the same level, most of those awesome places to live would have to be completely redone, or they would simply be vacant - but you still have the rare resource of beach front property, other than the 2% who will probably get more than the 98%, how do you decide who gets to be at the ocean and who doesn't?
Yes we've moved away from the economy discussion, perhaps this post needs to be in your new thread?
People still GET to work. Anyone who wants to contribute can do so. That will create the classes. It's that we take the bottom class and make it pretty attractive. Think Star Trek world.
No one is blocked from working, just no one has to.
Now this is interesting... So, if a person wants to work for a company they can - but what if that employee is bad for the company? it's no different than today in a lot of ways, only now that person has potential mental issues because - but that was true even before they wanted to work there... so...
rambling thought is all.
Yes, did you think that it was going to be a crime to attempt to work? Not so at all, it's just that everyone gets baseline money so that no one HAS to work.
No not a crime to attempt to work.. a neglect of those who want to so they can be part of the 2%, but aren't good enough.
But there won't be a desire by people to be in the 2% is, I think, what Scott is getting at. Some people get psychological rewards for working and would be paid for their time in addition to the base income everyone else gets. There would still be a gap but the people who desire to move up will and those that want to pursue other endeavors now have the ability and freedom to do that.
What I'm saying is that what if you @coliver wants to move up - but all companies find you wanting - so they won't hire you - granted, that's no different from today - I was simply asking the question.
Same as today, except logically better. Companies wouldn't have the massive resource pool, necessarily, that they can pull from today. So they would be offering every training incentive under the sun to get someone, who wants to work, to work for them. Of course the job market would be significantly different. Most labour tasks that we have today would be automated so the majority of jobs would be knowledge worker related.
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@scottalanmiller said in Buying vs Saving Economic Theory:
@DustinB3403 said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Mike-Davis and what exactly is wrong with WEP?!
(sarcasm boys)
That's all that they have here on Sicily where we are
What? Over 95% of WLAN in Sicily is WPA2, from my experience.
You must have met some of the 5% outdated/misconfigured stuff.
New provider's WLAN setup for consumer are ALL WPA2 and they have been WPA2 for years. Every public structure have WPA2 for sure. Every public university in Italy is part of EduRoam, so is WPA2 enterprise with RADIUS. -
@scottalanmiller said in Buying vs Saving Economic Theory:
@dafyre said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@dafyre said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@DustinB3403 said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Mike-Davis and what exactly is wrong with WEP?!
(sarcasm boys)
That's all that they have here on Sicily where we are
O.o Can you VPN back somewhere else?
I'm not in China, the EU does not block VPNs.
VPN for traffic protection, it is, then.... But I mean seriously? The WiFi in Sicily can't use WPA ?
People don't tend to replace access points here. Equipment is expected to last decades.
What? I think I have ZERO equipment older than 5 years in any of the company I worked. And they are SMB, of course.
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@Francesco-Provino said in Buying vs Saving Economic Theory:
@scottalanmiller said in Buying vs Saving Economic Theory:
@dafyre said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@dafyre said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@DustinB3403 said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Mike-Davis and what exactly is wrong with WEP?!
(sarcasm boys)
That's all that they have here on Sicily where we are
O.o Can you VPN back somewhere else?
I'm not in China, the EU does not block VPNs.
VPN for traffic protection, it is, then.... But I mean seriously? The WiFi in Sicily can't use WPA ?
People don't tend to replace access points here. Equipment is expected to last decades.
What? I think I have ZERO equipment older than 5 years in any of the company I worked. And they are SMB, of course.
Wow - you are lucky!
Some of my switches are 10 years old
servers x2 - 10 years old
server x1 - 6 years old
server x1 - 4 years old
printers - 12+ years old
wireless access recently replaced was 10 years old
etc. -
@wirestyle22 said in Buying vs Saving Economic Theory:
@scottalanmiller That's why they don't have a space program
That's hilarious, at least. ESA is probably the more active space company in the world, as of today.
We landed on a COMET two years ago, maybe you miss it…
I say "we" because I'm also a physicist :D.Oh, and many of the Chandra instruments were calibrated by my professor of astronomy in a facility that is 100mt away from our physics department… Chandra was a joint venture between NASA and ESA, maybe the biggest leap in the space knowledge in the last 30 years.
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@Dashrender said in Buying vs Saving Economic Theory:
@Francesco-Provino said in Buying vs Saving Economic Theory:
@scottalanmiller said in Buying vs Saving Economic Theory:
@dafyre said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@dafyre said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@DustinB3403 said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Mike-Davis and what exactly is wrong with WEP?!
(sarcasm boys)
That's all that they have here on Sicily where we are
O.o Can you VPN back somewhere else?
I'm not in China, the EU does not block VPNs.
VPN for traffic protection, it is, then.... But I mean seriously? The WiFi in Sicily can't use WPA ?
People don't tend to replace access points here. Equipment is expected to last decades.
What? I think I have ZERO equipment older than 5 years in any of the company I worked. And they are SMB, of course.
Wow - you are lucky!
Some of my switches are 10 years old
servers x2 - 10 years old
server x1 - 6 years old
server x1 - 4 years old
printers - 12+ years old
wireless access recently replaced was 10 years old
etc.We have standardized everything to IBM x3550M4 (3 years old), Cisco SMB stuff, Ubiquity ER8 and HP z230/240. Our refresh cycle is 5 years, if nothing broke first… I'm just thinking about refresh a couple of old HP DL380 G7.
Oh, and a P3600 is just arrived from Germany, to replace one of our 5-years-old DS3500 SAN (switching to local storage, yay!).
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@DustinB3403 said in Buying vs Saving Economic Theory:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@DustinB3403 said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
If you're never replacing things with newer better solutions there is an underlying issue.
That's a very American sentiment. They don't replace their houses for hundreds of years... because they build them to last the first time.
I did say better solutions. If the house they built is the best solution then fine. But don't complain about WEP and say things like "they don't replace things as they expect them to last decades" and then be snarky when someone comments on the economy of a country based on what you've said of the same country.
Buying new goods on a regular basis, creates a healthy economy. Not doing so contributes to the financial collapse that Italy just had.
Collapse? Maybe you are referring to the Greek's crisis!
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@Francesco-Provino said in Buying vs Saving Economic Theory:
@wirestyle22 said in Buying vs Saving Economic Theory:
@scottalanmiller That's why they don't have a space program
That's hilarious, at least. ESA is probably the more active space company in the world, as of today.
We landed on a COMET two years ago, maybe you miss it…
I say "we" because I'm also a physicist :D.Oh, and many of the Chandra instruments were calibrated by my professor of astronomy in a facility that is 100mt away from our physics department… Chandra was a joint venture between NASA and ESA, maybe the biggest leap in the space knowledge in the last 30 years.
My comment explaining that this was a reference to Dana Carvey was moved to another thread
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@Francesco-Provino said in Buying vs Saving Economic Theory:
@Dashrender said in Buying vs Saving Economic Theory:
@Francesco-Provino said in Buying vs Saving Economic Theory:
@scottalanmiller said in Buying vs Saving Economic Theory:
@dafyre said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@dafyre said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@DustinB3403 said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Mike-Davis and what exactly is wrong with WEP?!
(sarcasm boys)
That's all that they have here on Sicily where we are
O.o Can you VPN back somewhere else?
I'm not in China, the EU does not block VPNs.
VPN for traffic protection, it is, then.... But I mean seriously? The WiFi in Sicily can't use WPA ?
People don't tend to replace access points here. Equipment is expected to last decades.
What? I think I have ZERO equipment older than 5 years in any of the company I worked. And they are SMB, of course.
Wow - you are lucky!
Some of my switches are 10 years old
servers x2 - 10 years old
server x1 - 6 years old
server x1 - 4 years old
printers - 12+ years old
wireless access recently replaced was 10 years old
etc.We have standardized everything to IBM x3550M4 (3 years old), Cisco SMB stuff, Ubiquity ER8 and HP z230/240. Our refresh cycle is 5 years, if nothing broke first… I'm just thinking about refresh a couple of old HP DL380 G7.
Oh, and a P3600 is just arrived from Germany, to replace one of our 5-years-old DS3500 SAN (switching to local storage, yay!).
Sure, but replacing for replacing sake is often a waste of money.
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Ok, I don't think the other post are talking about anything related to Sicily or Italy.
Maybe we haven't the shiny IT of the US, but it's still the second in UE (behind the UK), and we are the 8th economy in the world.
Maybe you're painting a situation that's away from reality…
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I have no clue what that state of the economy of Italy is, but I do recall hearing about how poor the internet infrastructure is there.
Not that I (as a US citizen) can say much.. in non cities, it's pretty horrible too.
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@Dashrender said in Buying vs Saving Economic Theory:
I have no clue what that state of the economy of Italy is, but I do recall hearing about how poor the internet infrastructure is there.
Not that I (as a US citizen) can say much.. in non cities, it's pretty horrible too.
In the little cities of Sicily is not that good (7-20Mbit ADSL), but we're going to get FTTC (50Mbit and up) this year in almost every city with >10k peoples. The big cities (>200k) are all already covered with FTTC, an the biggest one are already on full FTTH with connectivity up to 1Gbps.
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@Dashrender said in Buying vs Saving Economic Theory:
I have no clue what that state of the economy of Italy is, but I do recall hearing about how poor the internet infrastructure is there.
Not that I (as a US citizen) can say much.. in non cities, it's pretty horrible too.
In cities for the most part it is also pretty terrible.
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@Dashrender said in Buying vs Saving Economic Theory:
@scottalanmiller said in Buying vs Saving Economic Theory:
@Dashrender said in Buying vs Saving Economic Theory:
@scottalanmiller said in Buying vs Saving Economic Theory:
@Dashrender said in Buying vs Saving Economic Theory:
Of course, how do you handle the transition of the current middle class, or even the wealthy - i.e. the beach houses, etc... you're putting 98% all on the same level, most of those awesome places to live would have to be completely redone, or they would simply be vacant - but you still have the rare resource of beach front property, other than the 2% who will probably get more than the 98%, how do you decide who gets to be at the ocean and who doesn't?
Yes we've moved away from the economy discussion, perhaps this post needs to be in your new thread?
People still GET to work. Anyone who wants to contribute can do so. That will create the classes. It's that we take the bottom class and make it pretty attractive. Think Star Trek world.
No one is blocked from working, just no one has to.
Now this is interesting... So, if a person wants to work for a company they can - but what if that employee is bad for the company? it's no different than today in a lot of ways, only now that person has potential mental issues because - but that was true even before they wanted to work there... so...
rambling thought is all.
Yes, did you think that it was going to be a crime to attempt to work? Not so at all, it's just that everyone gets baseline money so that no one HAS to work.
No not a crime to attempt to work.. a neglect of those who want to so they can be part of the 2%, but aren't good enough.
They aren't a part of it today. They are more neglected now. So that's not a new problem.
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@coliver said in Buying vs Saving Economic Theory:
@Dashrender said in Buying vs Saving Economic Theory:
I have no clue what that state of the economy of Italy is, but I do recall hearing about how poor the internet infrastructure is there.
Not that I (as a US citizen) can say much.. in non cities, it's pretty horrible too.
In cities for the most part it is also pretty terrible.
So far the Internet is working fine here. And we are insanely remote.
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3Mb/s. For a remote island village, it's good enough
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Also we are in a rental. If we were buying our own that was always on, it would be totally different. This is a service that gets turned on only when needed.
In Rome, it was 300Mb/s I think for $35
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@scottalanmiller said in Buying vs Saving Economic Theory:
@coliver said in Buying vs Saving Economic Theory:
@Dashrender said in Buying vs Saving Economic Theory:
I have no clue what that state of the economy of Italy is, but I do recall hearing about how poor the internet infrastructure is there.
Not that I (as a US citizen) can say much.. in non cities, it's pretty horrible too.
In cities for the most part it is also pretty terrible.
So far the Internet is working fine here. And we are insanely remote.
I meant cities in the US as per @Dashrender's post.
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@coliver said in Buying vs Saving Economic Theory:
@scottalanmiller said in Buying vs Saving Economic Theory:
@coliver said in Buying vs Saving Economic Theory:
@Dashrender said in Buying vs Saving Economic Theory:
I have no clue what that state of the economy of Italy is, but I do recall hearing about how poor the internet infrastructure is there.
Not that I (as a US citizen) can say much.. in non cities, it's pretty horrible too.
In cities for the most part it is also pretty terrible.
So far the Internet is working fine here. And we are insanely remote.
I meant cities in the US as per @Dashrender's post.
oh
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@Francesco-Provino said in Buying vs Saving Economic Theory:
@Dashrender said in Buying vs Saving Economic Theory:
I have no clue what that state of the economy of Italy is, but I do recall hearing about how poor the internet infrastructure is there.
Not that I (as a US citizen) can say much.. in non cities, it's pretty horrible too.
In the little cities of Sicily is not that good (7-20Mbit ADSL), but we're going to get FTTC (50Mbit and up) this year in almost every city with >10k peoples. The big cities (>200k) are all already covered with FTTC, an the biggest one are already on full FTTH with connectivity up to 1Gbps.
It's comea long way quickly. Italy was terrible a few years ago.
