Millennial generation
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@Dashrender said:
@thecreativeone91 said:
Landline go up to around $60/month.
Landlines are $60/month where you are? damn!
They are $22 after taxes here before you add on the crap services they want you to have.
Well Verizon is expensive here, I guess they have to find a way to make money, because there don't offer DSL here, or TV/FiOS. There's one and only product called "Freedom Essentials" that you can get which is basic phone.
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@thecreativeone91 said:
@Dashrender said:
@thecreativeone91 said:
Landline go up to around $60/month.
Landlines are $60/month where you are? damn!
They are $22 after taxes here before you add on the crap services they want you to have.
Well Verizon is expensive here, I guess they have to find a way to make money, because there don't offer DSL here, or TV/FiOS. There's one and only product called "Freedom Essentials" that you can get which is basic phone.
Do I recall correctly that you live in the sticks?
If that's right, yeah, then cellular is definitely the way to go.
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@Dashrender said:
I don't have any numbers, but I've read in the past that as our taxes lower, people in general are more philanthropic, and they will give to the charities, and those charities can help the less fortunate. This situation is superior to our current one because the charities themselves want to see people get back on their feet, there is no power in them keeping people dependent upon them. Unlike the government, where now that people get money from the government, the people will continue to vote people into power that continue to give them their free money.
I don't agree there. Non-profits are just like governments - they make their money based on the needs of the dependents and the people who work there are people trying to accumulate power and money in both cases. Non-profits are not free of those motivations. They are just as corrupt as governments or worse, since they lack even the mandate and the oversight of the governed.
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If the government doesn't do what it should for the people, people rebel, vote in another government, complain, etc. If a non-profit is corrupt, who finds out? Generally no one.
And even if money is not what is in play, talk to people dealing with NGOs in the third world, prostitutes follow the NGOs around like lost puppies because NGO workers so often trade goods for sex "off the record." The UN just investigated some of its own units and found that the sex trade was rampant and caused by the NGO / UN workers. Governments do this too, as do for profits, but not at the same rate. And a for profit employee stealing from the company to give gifts to a prostitute is easier to catch than an NGO worker withholding food or medical supplies until they get sex. One shows a gap in the records, one does not.
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@Dashrender said:
@art_of_shred said:
It's not that anyone "doesn't deserve" health care.
Oh but it is. You don't deserve a cell phone, you don't deserve a car, you don't even deserve a house or apt, or hell clothing or food. You definitely don't deserve health care.
All of these things come at a cost, you should should have to pony up for them, including health care. Now, that said, there has always been since the beginning the desire of some to help those less fortunate than themselves. These charities are what should be helping those who can't help themselves, not the government stealing our money to give to the have nots.
When those in power realized they could capitalize they power to even greater power by stealing from the rich to give to the poor, they have enabled all of these government programs to do just that.
I don't have any numbers, but I've read in the past that as our taxes lower, people in general are more philanthropic, and they will give to the charities, and those charities can help the less fortunate. This situation is superior to our current one because the charities themselves want to see people get back on their feet, there is no power in them keeping people dependent upon them. Unlike the government, where now that people get money from the government, the people will continue to vote people into power that continue to give them their free money.
Kinda like the signs at the park that say don't feed the wildlife...
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@scottalanmiller - it sounds like you're saying there is no solution then, or do you have a thought toward one?
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller - it sounds like you're saying there is no solution then, or do you have a thought toward one?
Stop giving money to NGOs!!!
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller - it sounds like you're saying there is no solution then, or do you have a thought toward one?
Stop giving money to NGOs!!!
LOL - but that doesn't help the poor, that only helps those being ripped off by the NGOs
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@Dashrender said:
LOL - but that doesn't help the poor, that only helps those being ripped off by the NGOs
Not according to a lot of people, it actually does help the poor. A great book to read that deals with how the poor are kept poor by NGOs is "Dark Star Safari." It's a travelogue but by a guy who hangs out with prime ministers and worked for NGOs and observes NGOs being used to keep corrupt governments rich and the poor really poor.
In theory, even NGOs that try to go good, might be part of the problem, not the solution.
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@Dashrender said:
When those in power realized they could capitalize they power to even greater power by stealing from the rich to give to the poor, they have enabled all of these government programs to do just that.
But, that's how they make sure they get voted into the office you give everything to people who don't have it. and now, they of course will support you, because if they don't they won't have anything.
Heck they are starting programs now to give cell phones & service, internet connections (20Meg min download speed connections is there goal) and a new laptop to anyone on welfare in VA. They say these items are a necessity to life now, and they shouldn't go without it just because they can't afford it.
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@thecreativeone91 said:
@Dashrender said:
When those in power realized they could capitalize they power to even greater power by stealing from the rich to give to the poor, they have enabled all of these government programs to do just that.
But, that's how they make sure they get voted into the office you give everything to people who don't have it. and now, they of course will support you, because if they don't they won't have anything.
Heck they are starting programs now to give cell phones & service, internet connections (20Meg min download speed connections is there goal) and a new laptop to anyone on welfare in VA. They say these items are a necessity to life now, and they shouldn't go without it just because they can't afford it.
Thanks for making my point
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@thecreativeone91 said:
But, that's how they make sure they get voted into the office you give everything to people who don't have it. and now, they of course will support you, because if they don't they won't have anything.
Democracy. Where the poor base is in power and the rich, smart or caring are the helpless minority.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@thecreativeone91 said:
But, that's how they make sure they get voted into the office you give everything to people who don't have it. and now, they of course will support you, because if they don't they won't have anything.
Democracy. Where the poor base is in power and the rich, smart or caring are the helpless minority.
Well, we that discussion the other day too. Did we ever agree on a good style that doesn't suffer from long term corruption? or even short term?
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@thecreativeone91 said:
But, that's how they make sure they get voted into the office you give everything to people who don't have it. and now, they of course will support you, because if they don't they won't have anything.
Democracy. Where the poor base is in power and the rich, smart or caring are the helpless minority.
Well, we that discussion the other day too. Did we ever agree on a good style that doesn't suffer from long term corruption? or even short term?
Power corrupts. But democracy has the fewest social checks and balances of any form.
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@scottalanmiller said:
Power corrupts. But democracy has the fewest social checks and balances of any form.
Dictatorship has no checks. Well, that is unless you take your gun and kill the dictator...
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@thecreativeone91 said:
Dictatorship has no checks. Well, that is unless you take your gun an kill the dictator...
It has strong social checks. Democracy has none. A dictator doing evil is seen as a failure by his people and by the world. A democracy doing evil has no one to blame or take responsibility. The social checks that exist for every form are lost with democracy, it is the only governmental form designed to remove all guilt from anyone, no matter how horrible of a decision that they make.
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Yes, but short of the gun from @thecreativeone91 how do you remove a dictator?
At least with a democracy you can vote people out. Sure it doesn't happen because people are in general lazy and can't be bothered to get involved..
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@Dashrender said:
Yes, but short of the gun from @thecreativeone91 how do you remove a dictator?
Hitler, Case in point. He was even able to manipulate his people into thinking he was good, and he was helping them. Protecting them from the enemy that's trying to come hurt them. Sound familiar?
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@thecreativeone91 I hate quoting the man, but he wasn't wrong - just a war criminal
"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."
-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials -
@thecreativeone91 said:
Hitler, Case in point. He was even able to manipulate his people into thinking he was good, and he was helping them. Protecting them from the enemy that's trying to come hurt them. Sound familiar?
Well, he was only a dictator for a little bit and even then only kind of. Remember he was voted in via party politics. That was a country just coming out of a stable monarchy and floundering with democracy while being occupied. Doesn't make for a good example. They were only not an acting democracy during a war, never while peaceful.
