Pros/Cons Dual Best Effort ISP vs Fiber/MPLS.
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@Dashrender said:
Other cloud services where you have to send a lot of data might not work, but I'm trying to think of a general time that might be the case?
For us, YMMV:
Dropbox
Google drive
Uploading video to youtube
remotely managing other sites
sending data between sites
backups to the cloud (totally impossible unless we got a way sexier connection, I'm not sure 100/100 would cut it)
.... other stuff as I think of it -
LOL
Backups to the cloud are something I never understood unless you have tiny amounts of data or your daily new amount of data was next to nothing.
But just as bad, in the case of failure, how are you suppose to get back online? It would take days or more to download all of the data back in most cases, and that's assuming you left the connection alone for nothing but that.As for the rest - Google Drive/Dropbox, etc assuming you're dealiing with traditional office files, that shouldn't be HUGE deal... but sure, it'll be slow.
Youtube, ok yeah, just forget that!
You have a hard time remotely managing sites? I have 3 site to site VPNs and 78 users using a web based EHR and I can still do remote management easily with my 10 megs up.
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@Dashrender we deal with TB's of video, it's horrendous some days.
Imagine your typical rugby pitch, now surround it with cameras recording 1080P, allow to stew for several hours.
I have users with desks full of HDD's. It's not pretty.
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@Dashrender said:
But just as bad, in the case of failure, how are you suppose to get back online? It would take days or more to download all of the data back in most cases, and that's assuming you left the connection alone for nothing but that.
We will call this problems that seem obvious when you are at a company with a 10Mb/s WAN. Lots of companies, certainly not all, have huge pipes and can restore systems really quickly. Lots of even homes now are starting to get 1Gb/s. Think about how fast a restore could be for critical systems over 100Mb/s to 1Gb/s. In many cases, companies with good WANs have faster WAN links thatn @mattspeller has LAN speed!!
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Also, consider that lots of people have one of these two situations:
- Backups are for restoring data but they can be functionally back online long before data is restored.
- Restores will go to another site, like online, so restores could potentially be 10Gb/s LAN restores even when done in the cloud.
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@scottalanmiller said:
Think about how fast a restore could be for critical systems over 100Mb/s to 1Gb/s. In many cases, companies with good WANs have faster WAN links thatn @mattspeller has LAN speed!!
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
But just as bad, in the case of failure, how are you suppose to get back online? It would take days or more to download all of the data back in most cases, and that's assuming you left the connection alone for nothing but that.
We will call this problems that seem obvious when you are at a company with a 10Mb/s WAN. Lots of companies, certainly not all, have huge pipes and can restore systems really quickly. Lots of even homes now are starting to get 1Gb/s. Think about how fast a restore could be for critical systems over 100Mb/s to 1Gb/s. In many cases, companies with good WANs have faster WAN links thatn @mattspeller has LAN speed!!
The last company I interviewed at had backups from AppAssure replicated to a second location (they have 16) plus to the cloud. As well as the SANs replicated between two locations and backuped to Azure. Cloud backups when planned properly seems to be a good alternative (much better) than keeping tape or harddrives off site in a vault.
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And another thing about cloud backups.... if you move from Snowflake management to DevOps, restores can be in minutes. Only small amounts of data might need to be brought in from the cloud. DevOps models can make backups 1% of the size that they traditionally are for many shops.
As an example, MangoLassi is 14GB to restore a system image. Less than 1GB to restore the data. Only the data needs to be restored to get the community back up and running. 1GB doesn't take long to restore even over 10Mb/s and nothing over the 10Gb/s that we have.
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@MattSpeller said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Think about how fast a restore could be for critical systems over 100Mb/s to 1Gb/s. In many cases, companies with good WANs have faster WAN links thatn @mattspeller has LAN speed!!
I'm right there with you, Seeing that other thread today where 1 Gb was $399/month.. Man I'd do that in a heart beat here! I'd let users do whatever they heck they wanted online.. lol
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@thecreativeone91 said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
But just as bad, in the case of failure, how are you suppose to get back online? It would take days or more to download all of the data back in most cases, and that's assuming you left the connection alone for nothing but that.
We will call this problems that seem obvious when you are at a company with a 10Mb/s WAN. Lots of companies, certainly not all, have huge pipes and can restore systems really quickly. Lots of even homes now are starting to get 1Gb/s. Think about how fast a restore could be for critical systems over 100Mb/s to 1Gb/s. In many cases, companies with good WANs have faster WAN links thatn @mattspeller has LAN speed!!
The last company I interviewed at had backups from AppAssure replicated to a second location (they have 16) plus to the cloud. As well as the SANs replicated between two locations and backuped to Azure. Cloud backups when planned properly seems to be a good alternative (much better) than keeping tape or harddrives off site in a vault.
Sure, if you have 100Mb+ internet connection.
Granted I'm behind the times because I was worried about outages, but I'm working to solve that now, so soon I could see myself having 5 to 10 time the bandwidth I have now.
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Can you get 100/100 to both Offices in your city? or only one of them?
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@scottalanmiller said:
And another thing about cloud backups.... if you move from Snowflake management to DevOps, restores can be in minutes. Only small amounts of data might need to be brought in from the cloud. DevOps models can make backups 1% of the size that they traditionally are for many shops.
As an example, MangoLassi is 14GB to restore a system image. Less than 1GB to restore the data. Only the data needs to be restored to get the community back up and running. 1GB doesn't take long to restore even over 10Mb/s and nothing over the 10Gb/s that we have.
You have 10 Gb to the internet?
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SOOOOOooooo.. no other Pros or Cons ???
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@Dashrender said:
@thecreativeone91 said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
But just as bad, in the case of failure, how are you suppose to get back online? It would take days or more to download all of the data back in most cases, and that's assuming you left the connection alone for nothing but that.
We will call this problems that seem obvious when you are at a company with a 10Mb/s WAN. Lots of companies, certainly not all, have huge pipes and can restore systems really quickly. Lots of even homes now are starting to get 1Gb/s. Think about how fast a restore could be for critical systems over 100Mb/s to 1Gb/s. In many cases, companies with good WANs have faster WAN links thatn @mattspeller has LAN speed!!
The last company I interviewed at had backups from AppAssure replicated to a second location (they have 16) plus to the cloud. As well as the SANs replicated between two locations and backuped to Azure. Cloud backups when planned properly seems to be a good alternative (much better) than keeping tape or harddrives off site in a vault.
Sure, if you have 100Mb+ internet connection.
Granted I'm behind the times because I was worried about outages, but I'm working to solve that now, so soon I could see myself having 5 to 10 time the bandwidth I have now.
They don't have 100mb internet connection. It's metro between locations. Internet is like 40meg at each location. SANs are 42TB but they upload the data tranactionally as it happens so it doesn't make a hit on the connections. Backups are done hourly.
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@Dashrender said:
@thecreativeone91 said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
But just as bad, in the case of failure, how are you suppose to get back online? It would take days or more to download all of the data back in most cases, and that's assuming you left the connection alone for nothing but that.
We will call this problems that seem obvious when you are at a company with a 10Mb/s WAN. Lots of companies, certainly not all, have huge pipes and can restore systems really quickly. Lots of even homes now are starting to get 1Gb/s. Think about how fast a restore could be for critical systems over 100Mb/s to 1Gb/s. In many cases, companies with good WANs have faster WAN links thatn @mattspeller has LAN speed!!
The last company I interviewed at had backups from AppAssure replicated to a second location (they have 16) plus to the cloud. As well as the SANs replicated between two locations and backuped to Azure. Cloud backups when planned properly seems to be a good alternative (much better) than keeping tape or harddrives off site in a vault.
Sure, if you have 100Mb+ internet connection.
Granted I'm behind the times because I was worried about outages, but I'm working to solve that now, so soon I could see myself having 5 to 10 time the bandwidth I have now.
You can bring down a ton with a lot less than 100Mb/s. At 100Mb/s you are getting some companies' LAN speeds. Remember that restores are often compressed and only need to be data. So 30Mb/s will often let you restore a ton. And keep in mind that only live data, not archives, need to be back before you are up and running.
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@MattSpeller said:
@Dashrender said:
SOOOOOooooo.. no other Pros or Cons ???
Cat pics download way faster on 100mbit?
You know I laughed.. but I didn't put in the pro column that staff would be able to use streaming media more if management was OK with it. If I skip 50/10 and go to 100/15 I could probably even create a VLAN for patient internet access (of course throttle that sucker).
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The more you mention the situation you are in, the more it smells like you need to get out of the closet and into the datacenter!
Get cheap crap pipes, move yer shit into a colo cage somewhere. That comes with a 100Mbps or even a 1Gbps Cogent unmetered pipe out to the interwebs. Have both sites VPN into it using as best as you can. I would take me a Peplink, break out a VPN connection to the colo, then route all the HTTP/HTTPS traffic over the cheapest pipe I can find.
Price on pipes and such would probably equal out on onsite versus offsite for a colo cage. That's when you move into the fun of counting power costs, cooling costs, even equipment costs if you move to a leased managed hosting model versus owning equipment. Then you will get good savings there in the long run.
As long as you can let go of the control of the physical machine, you can make some serious inroads into better network management. Hell, have you thought about cloud services? Don't even need a location, just be in the clooooooooooooooooud!
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PSX is right. Hosted is the obvious answer. Once you move to fast pipes and redundancy, being hosted will be almost certainly a slam dunk.
