Possible Refresh for Local Firehouse
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@handsofqwerty said:
@Breffni-Potter said:
Why is the choice to go physical or virtual dependant on NTGs involvement?
Surely you'd want to go virtual yourself no?
Because something like powering on the VM would be too much for them. Virtualization would obviously be the preferred method, but if they don't want to have ongoing IT support, I can't keep helping them power on a VM, etc all the time. Thus why if they can't get NTG's ongoing support, they have to be able to do it themselves, ie going physical.
Why would they need to power on a VM? If they can't do that, they need assistance all the time regardless of the solution.
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@coliver said:
Why limit yourself with ESXi free? Hyper-V has more features in the free platform without any of the restrictions.
ESXi can't even work here. The Proliant MicroServer has no RAID so ESXi would have no way to do RAID. ESXi also can't do free backups. So you lose a lot. HyperV for sure on that hardware.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@handsofqwerty said:
@Breffni-Potter said:
Why is the choice to go physical or virtual dependant on NTGs involvement?
Surely you'd want to go virtual yourself no?
Because something like powering on the VM would be too much for them. Virtualization would obviously be the preferred method, but if they don't want to have ongoing IT support, I can't keep helping them power on a VM, etc all the time. Thus why if they can't get NTG's ongoing support, they have to be able to do it themselves, ie going physical.
Why would they need to power on a VM? If they can't do that, they need assistance all the time regardless of the solution.
I'm not denying they need help period. I'm just saying that if the door system goes down and the VM doesn't auto-power-on, which if I can do that with Hyper-V then great, then they'd be in trouble.
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@handsofqwerty said:
@coliver said:
@handsofqwerty said:
@coliver said:
@handsofqwerty said:
@Breffni-Potter said:
Why is the choice to go physical or virtual dependant on NTGs involvement?
Surely you'd want to go virtual yourself no?
Because something like powering on the VM would be too much for them. Virtualization would obviously be the preferred method, but if they don't want to have ongoing IT support, I can't keep helping them power on a VM, etc all the time. Thus why if they can't get NTG's ongoing support, they have to be able to do it themselves, ie going physical.
Almost every virtualization solution allows you to start the VM when the server starts... it would be as simple as hitting the button to turn on the server.
I am not sure if you can set this in ESXi Free. I don't remember having it when I was using the Free but I can't confirm that.
Why limit yourself with ESXi free? Hyper-V has more features in the free platform without any of the restrictions.
Ok, well that's an option. I assume this is where I'd get it from?
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/evaluate-hyper-v-server-2012Do they have any windows server 2012 licenses you can uses that without taking up a seat of standard edition if the only roles is hyper-v and you get the GUI. the free version is a core install. Make sure you chose the hyper-v server https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/evaluate-hyper-v-server-2012-r2
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@handsofqwerty said:
@coliver said:
@handsofqwerty said:
@coliver said:
@handsofqwerty said:
@Breffni-Potter said:
Why is the choice to go physical or virtual dependant on NTGs involvement?
Surely you'd want to go virtual yourself no?
Because something like powering on the VM would be too much for them. Virtualization would obviously be the preferred method, but if they don't want to have ongoing IT support, I can't keep helping them power on a VM, etc all the time. Thus why if they can't get NTG's ongoing support, they have to be able to do it themselves, ie going physical.
Almost every virtualization solution allows you to start the VM when the server starts... it would be as simple as hitting the button to turn on the server.
I am not sure if you can set this in ESXi Free. I don't remember having it when I was using the Free but I can't confirm that.
Why limit yourself with ESXi free? Hyper-V has more features in the free platform without any of the restrictions.
Ok, well that's an option. I assume this is where I'd get it from?
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/evaluate-hyper-v-server-2012I don't follow.
Also make sure you aren't putting them on an old version.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/evaluate-hyper-v-server-2012-r2
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@scottalanmiller said:
@coliver said:
Why limit yourself with ESXi free? Hyper-V has more features in the free platform without any of the restrictions.
ESXi can't even work here. The Proliant MicroServer has no RAID so ESXi would have no way to do RAID. ESXi also can't do free backups. So you lose a lot. HyperV for sure on that hardware.
Not sure what you mean by the Microserver having no RAID. You can do RAID on a Microserver. You just have a lot fewer drives you can use as opposed to a full-size server, tower or rack-mounted.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@handsofqwerty said:
@coliver said:
@handsofqwerty said:
@coliver said:
@handsofqwerty said:
@Breffni-Potter said:
Why is the choice to go physical or virtual dependant on NTGs involvement?
Surely you'd want to go virtual yourself no?
Because something like powering on the VM would be too much for them. Virtualization would obviously be the preferred method, but if they don't want to have ongoing IT support, I can't keep helping them power on a VM, etc all the time. Thus why if they can't get NTG's ongoing support, they have to be able to do it themselves, ie going physical.
Almost every virtualization solution allows you to start the VM when the server starts... it would be as simple as hitting the button to turn on the server.
I am not sure if you can set this in ESXi Free. I don't remember having it when I was using the Free but I can't confirm that.
Why limit yourself with ESXi free? Hyper-V has more features in the free platform without any of the restrictions.
Ok, well that's an option. I assume this is where I'd get it from?
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/evaluate-hyper-v-server-2012I don't follow.
Also make sure you aren't putting them on an old version.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/evaluate-hyper-v-server-2012-r2
Yeah, I'd put them on R2. That's why I was making sure I had the right link.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@handsofqwerty said:
@Breffni-Potter said:
Why is the choice to go physical or virtual dependant on NTGs involvement?
Surely you'd want to go virtual yourself no?
Because something like powering on the VM would be too much for them. Virtualization would obviously be the preferred method, but if they don't want to have ongoing IT support, I can't keep helping them power on a VM, etc all the time. Thus why if they can't get NTG's ongoing support, they have to be able to do it themselves, ie going physical.
Why would they need to power on a VM? If they can't do that, they need assistance all the time regardless of the solution.
Or just have them auto power on. A restart due to failed services seems like something more likely to happen than to power on a VM.
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Keep in mind doing this personally (especially if you don't have an LLC) you are taking a lot more personal liability than handing it over to @ntg
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Ok, so we've determined that we can use Hyper-V 2012 R2 for the hypervisor. That's fine. I've got some Hyper-V experience, just not as much as ESXi.
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@handsofqwerty said:
@thecreativeone91 said:
First though would be to get an MFP/Copier under contract.
Secondly why uses ESXi free with so many limitations, if you need free hyper-v is a better option.
Again, it's something we can look into, but we'd have to see.
ESXi free really should not be an option today. I don't know of any scenario, other than a political one where someone internally is not considering the needs of the business, where ESXi is a good choice for a running business (fine for a lab.) Once you drop to the limitations of ESXi Free, XenServer beats it in every way and for people on a tight budget and can't afford backup software HyperV is the choice because while it doesn't do quite everything that XS does, it does more than ESXi plus has the backup API for free.
ESXi is the only "never use" in a free scenario as all of its benefits are gone now. If you are looking at free, ESXi shouldn't be on the consideration list.
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@handsofqwerty said:
Ok, so we've determined that we can use Hyper-V 2012 R2 for the hypervisor. That's fine. I've got some Hyper-V experience, just not as much as ESXi.
This is why I asked. I just wanted to get some other opinions so I could think of things I hadn't thought of myself.
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@handsofqwerty said:
Not sure what you mean by the Microserver having no RAID. You can do RAID on a Microserver. You just have a lot fewer drives you can use as opposed to a full-size server, tower or rack-mounted.
By adding a third party RAID card?
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@scottalanmiller said:
@handsofqwerty said:
Not sure what you mean by the Microserver having no RAID. You can do RAID on a Microserver. You just have a lot fewer drives you can use as opposed to a full-size server, tower or rack-mounted.
By adding a third party RAID card?
http://h20564.www2.hp.com/hpsc/doc/public/display?docId=c03004814
That's just one example.
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@handsofqwerty said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@handsofqwerty said:
Not sure what you mean by the Microserver having no RAID. You can do RAID on a Microserver. You just have a lot fewer drives you can use as opposed to a full-size server, tower or rack-mounted.
By adding a third party RAID card?
http://h20564.www2.hp.com/hpsc/doc/public/display?docId=c03004814
That's just one example.
Oh that's new then. Traditionally the MicroServer has been completely without RAID. Although one has to wonder what the chances are that VMware is going to support this (read: have drivers.)
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@scottalanmiller said:
@handsofqwerty said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@handsofqwerty said:
Not sure what you mean by the Microserver having no RAID. You can do RAID on a Microserver. You just have a lot fewer drives you can use as opposed to a full-size server, tower or rack-mounted.
By adding a third party RAID card?
http://h20564.www2.hp.com/hpsc/doc/public/display?docId=c03004814
That's just one example.
Oh that's new then. Traditionally the MicroServer has been completely without RAID. Although one has to wonder what the chances are that VMware is going to support this (read: have drivers.)
If I go to Hyper-V, then I don't have to worry about VMware and drivers.
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@handsofqwerty said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@handsofqwerty said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@handsofqwerty said:
Not sure what you mean by the Microserver having no RAID. You can do RAID on a Microserver. You just have a lot fewer drives you can use as opposed to a full-size server, tower or rack-mounted.
By adding a third party RAID card?
http://h20564.www2.hp.com/hpsc/doc/public/display?docId=c03004814
That's just one example.
Oh that's new then. Traditionally the MicroServer has been completely without RAID. Although one has to wonder what the chances are that VMware is going to support this (read: have drivers.)
If I go to Hyper-V, then I don't have to worry about VMware and drivers.
Exactly. And you don't have to worry about being limited to hardware RAID either. It's weak Windows Software RAID, but at least there is an option.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@handsofqwerty said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@handsofqwerty said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@handsofqwerty said:
Not sure what you mean by the Microserver having no RAID. You can do RAID on a Microserver. You just have a lot fewer drives you can use as opposed to a full-size server, tower or rack-mounted.
By adding a third party RAID card?
http://h20564.www2.hp.com/hpsc/doc/public/display?docId=c03004814
That's just one example.
Oh that's new then. Traditionally the MicroServer has been completely without RAID. Although one has to wonder what the chances are that VMware is going to support this (read: have drivers.)
If I go to Hyper-V, then I don't have to worry about VMware and drivers.
Exactly. And you don't have to worry about being limited to hardware RAID either. It's weak Windows Software RAID, but at least there is an option.
Yeah, I think it'd probably be safer to go with the embedded RAID on this one. But that's just me...
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@scottalanmiller @handsofqwerty
I've been burned by the Windows software "raid" more than once... Nothing beats a good (tested) backup.
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@dafyre said:
@scottalanmiller @handsofqwerty
I've been burned by the Windows software "raid" more than once... Nothing beats a good (tested) backup.
Yeah, which is why I want to deploy a Unitrends Free as well.
