Finger Prints Are Not Passwords
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@MattSpeller said:
@scottalanmiller said:
If they are going to steal it, it's already gone.
I'm curious how you got to there
You are assuming that theft will occur because you decided to leverage a feature. Why? That makes no sense. You are assuming that the thief is in your house but only steals your TV if you've been watching it. That's not how it works. If you are assuming that the thief is in your house (is on your device and has access to the biometric scanner) then he is going to steal your biometrics whether you chose to use them or not. Unless you are pressing that button with gloves on or otherwise avoiding letting the scanner see your fingers.
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What timing...
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@mlnews so much better with moustaches lol
I actually did a bit of reading, apparently it's stored independently on a separate chip. According to Apple's specs it's reasonably secure. I'm still really uncomfortable with this technology and I'll opt out.
From your post below, how do I avoid biometrics? By not purchasing/using any devices that use them
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@MattSpeller said:
From your post below, how do I avoid biometrics? By not purchasing/using any devices that use them
What phone available today, for example, does not use them? Nearly every sensor on a phone collects identifying biometrics of some sort. Even your desktop keyboard does that (there are systems that use your typing patterns as biometric passcodes!!)
Fingerprints are just the ones that we talk about. But the amount of identifying information collected by all computing devices is staggering.
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@scottalanmiller said:
What phone available today, for example, does not use them?
Almost all expect the Newest iPhones. Voice Command, And predictive text both can be turned off. Very few android and no windows phones have finger print.
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@scottalanmiller said:
Even your desktop keyboard does that (there are systems that use your typing patterns as biometric passcodes!!)What system are you using that does that? Mobile OSes do in Android and iOS but it can be turned off.
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@scottalanmiller said:
Even your desktop keyboard does that (there are systems that use your typing patterns as biometric passcodes!!)
@thecreativeone91 said:
What system are you using that does that? Mobile OSes do in Android and iOS but it can be turned off.
The point was that a shim (aka malware or even embedded in software you trust) can easily be dropped onto your PC and collect this information.
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@thecreativeone91 said:
What system are you using that does that? Mobile OSes do in Android and iOS but it can be turned off.
@thecreativeone91 said:
Almost all expect the Newest iPhones. Voice Command, And predictive text both can be turned off. Very few android and no windows phones have finger print.
Who cares about what can be turned off. The entire point of this was an exploit/shim. You can be fairly certain that a shim/exploit will not respect that setting.
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@thecreativeone91 said:
@scottalanmiller said:
What phone available today, for example, does not use them?
Almost all expect the Newest iPhones. Voice Command, And predictive text both can be turned off. Very few android and no windows phones have finger print.
That's what I thought. You are pretty much limited to old or really low end devices and rapidly those are disappearing. Some will last for a while, I suspect, but only so long before normal touchpads can read fingerprints, I assume. How long until your mouse can read your fingerprint too?
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@thecreativeone91 said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Even your desktop keyboard does that (there are systems that use your typing patterns as biometric passcodes!!)What system are you using that does that? Mobile OSes do in Android and iOS but it can be turned off.
Any software that wants to can watch your keystrokes for the biometric. I don't use any that tell me that they are doing it, but any that want to, can, including websites.
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@JaredBusch said:
Who cares about what can be turned off. The entire point of this was an exploit/shim. You can be fairly certain that a shim/exploit will not respect that setting.
That's a key factor here. The OP was about malware that could bypass the system's security. So the existence of the ability to collect biometrics (the presence of sensors) becomes the risk in that case.
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@scottalanmiller said:
That's a key factor here. The OP was about malware that could bypass the system's security. So the existence of the ability to collect biometrics (the presence of sensors) becomes the risk in that case.
Well if you are going that far you might as well say any device that has a mic is recording you 24/7. Computer, Phone, Dumb/Feature Phones (they have java too on most). Heck if you want to put your Tin Foil hat on power companies can use their Smart Meters to gather information about you. You can gather sounds, signatures of devices etc plugged into your house. CFLs would be very easy to hide mics that send singals to the meter as well.
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@thecreativeone91 said:
@scottalanmiller said:
That's a key factor here. The OP was about malware that could bypass the system's security. So the existence of the ability to collect biometrics (the presence of sensors) becomes the risk in that case.
Well if you are going that far you might as well say any device that has a mic is recording you 24/7. Computer, Phone, Dumb/Feature Phones (they have java too on most). Heck if you want to put your Tin Foil hat on power companies can use their Smart Meters to gather information about you. You can gather sounds, signatures of devices etc plugged into your house. CFLs would be very easy to hide mics that send singals to the meter as well.
That's my point - once you are assuming that the vendor is stealing your data, not just the data that you share with them, but the data on the device, and selling it, then you are into an area where the tin foil hat is on and things like the microphone are obviously concerns - much bigger concerns than the fingerprint scanner. Far more money in recording people. And no additional "lines" need to be crossed.
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Well security isn't androids strong point from the get go. But Google's involvement could potentially make it worse (no one knows as there part is closed source)
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Don't confuse me pointing out that all of these things are possible and equal risk with thinking that we should be avoiding them. I think that avoiding fingerprints because of any of the reasons given in the thread is unrealistic. There are levels of security that are worthwhile and those that are not. Making your life difficult because of extremely unlikely, very fringe security concerns isn't good. We might as well stop using technology and go live on a mountain somewhere and only use cash. If that's the life you'd prefer, knock yourself out. There are security concerns out there, but we have to find a reasonable medium ground or else we start getting crazy.
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The only reason I need to avoid finger prints is because I can be compelled by the gov't to give them up use them (or they just use one of mine they have one file) to unlock things I don't want them to have access to.
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@Dashrender said:
The only reason I need to avoid finger prints is because I can be compelled by the gov't to give them up use them (or they just use one of mine they have one file) to unlock things I don't want them to have access to.
In Virginia I know any law enforcement legally is entitled to anything on your persons without a search warrant this includes your cell phone and any information they can access or accounts they can get from it. I believe it it's locked with a password they then need a warrant but, not for any biometerics.
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@Dashrender said:
The only reason I need to avoid finger prints is because I can be compelled by the gov't to give them up use them (or they just use one of mine they have one file) to unlock things I don't want them to have access to.
That's fine and makes sense. Just be aware that with iPhones, that's not a concern.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
The only reason I need to avoid finger prints is because I can be compelled by the gov't to give them up use them (or they just use one of mine they have one file) to unlock things I don't want them to have access to.
That's fine and makes sense. Just be aware that with iPhones, that's not a concern.
How is this not a concern? I get stopped by the police. They see I have an iPhone, they pull me out of my car which allows them to search anything visible, my phone, because of the previously mentioned court case they compel me to unlock the phone with my finger and now they have full access.
Now, if I really want to have a secure phone I could have separate additional passwords for those apps that allow it beyond just using the finger print reader for unlock, but if I'm doing that, what's the point of using the fingerprint reader in the first place?
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@Dashrender said:
How is this not a concern? I get stopped by the police. They see I have an iPhone, they pull me out of my car which allows them to search anything visible, my phone, because of the previously mentioned court case they compel me to unlock the phone with my finger and now they have full access.
There are niche cases where it would be a concern, but few where you would not have other rights protecting you. If you are being pulled over, simply turn off your phone. Anytime you are concern, just turn it off. Problem solved.
