Is Microsoft the New Apple?
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@Dashrender said:
When you have a technical staff you can get away with those things, but when you don't - now what?
Then this model isn't for you
Microsoft designed their models around how "normal" companies work and how they should work. Managing desktops isn't a bad thing. Just important to realize that it isn't for absolutely everyone, but it is for most people. Both models have value, just for different kinds of companies. -
@Dashrender said:
It sounds like you couldn't even get a job as a receptionist in those companies if you can't fix your own PC issues for the most part. One one hand that sounds almost awesome - people who understand the technology that they use, realize it has pitfalls and they themselves know how to get around a lot of them... but the rest the US this is simply not the case - but you've already said that.
That is mostly true. The difference is that most receptionists out here have as many IT skills as most L1 IT people. Even the most computer illiterate person here is a power user compared to most of the US market.
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@Dashrender said:
I just wonder how life would be different around my office if everyone had to provide their own computer, or at least just maintain their own computer - if you're computer is broken, it's on YOU to fix it, not some IT department. I think half our employees would be fired inside a week because they'd break something and have no clue to how fix it, nor do they care cause it's not their problem.
Keep in mind that while it is semi "on you" to fix it, you work in an office where every single person is kind of IT. Everyone can help you and everyone trains you and you can't hide in a pool of people who can't use computers like you can in other companies. If you can't use a computer, you are useless and can't do your job. So you either learn very quickly or move on. It's not as weird as it sounds when you see it in action. And it isn't that there is never any IT, but it is a minor, background function often focused on big things.
And here, where I am right now, the office manager (not IT) deals with things like getting you keyboards, mice, monitors, etc. And even sets up your computer for you!
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
I just wonder how life would be different around my office if everyone had to provide their own computer, or at least just maintain their own computer - if you're computer is broken, it's on YOU to fix it, not some IT department. I think half our employees would be fired inside a week because they'd break something and have no clue to how fix it, nor do they care cause it's not their problem.
Keep in mind that while it is semi "on you" to fix it, you work in an office where every single person is kind of IT. Everyone can help you and everyone trains you and you can't hide in a pool of people who can't use computers like you can in other companies. If you can't use a computer, you are useless and can't do your job. So you either learn very quickly or move on. It's not as weird as it sounds when you see it in action. And it isn't that there is never any IT, but it is a minor, background function often focused on big things.
And here, where I am right now, the office manager (not IT) deals with things like getting you keyboards, mice, monitors, etc. And even sets up your computer for you!
That makes sense, if you're working there, you probably do care about learning more about computers in general anyway, so learning to fix problems comes more naturally.
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It's interesting to see this microcosm, as you said way outside the norm. Do other countries have areas that are heavily devoted to tech and as a side effect the area in general is more knowledgeable than average?
I ask this assuming that the only reason this exists in California is because of Silicon Valley, am I mistaken?
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@Dashrender said:
It's interesting to see this microcosm, as you said way outside the norm. Do other countries have areas that are heavily devoted to tech and as a side effect the area in general is more knowledgeable than average?
Yes, India has Bangalore, for example. Spain has Madrid. Canada has Ottawa. Those are some of the most dramatic.
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@Dashrender said:
I ask this assuming that the only reason this exists in California is because of Silicon Valley, am I mistaken?
Silicon Valley is the epicenter (pun intended) of it but Seattle maintains its own microcosm of this nature which, I believe, spills into Portland. Because of the amazing pull of Silicon Valley, San Fran and Seattle it ends up being the dominant culture on the entire west coast. But Austin is similar, being a development city too.
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Nearly all countries have cities or regions devoted primarily to a single or a few industries. China has whole regions that do just plastic manufacturing, as an example. The US has the south east of Michigan devoted to high end automotive engineering and manufacturing. Houston and Oklahoma City are all about energy. LA about media.
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@scottalanmiller said:
Like they don't have IT departments (until they get really large). Hundred and hundreds of people, no IT (because everyone is "technical enough.") People tend to admin their own desktops. Laptops are common rather than desktops. Mac and Linux instead of Windows. Remote access is assumed. AD isn't often even considered, nor any centralized machine management system. On premise hosting isn't thought about, hosted services are the only real consideration. Cloud computing is a foregone conclusion (real cloud, not what people elsewhere call cloud to sound cool.) DevOps rather than traditional systems administration (there is a reason that there is a barrier to entry for IT people into this market.)
Really? This stuff is alien to someone in New York or Chicago? I'm surprised. I think this is fairly common in London now.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Like they don't have IT departments (until they get really large). Hundred and hundreds of people, no IT (because everyone is "technical enough.") People tend to admin their own desktops. Laptops are common rather than desktops. Mac and Linux instead of Windows. Remote access is assumed. AD isn't often even considered, nor any centralized machine management system. On premise hosting isn't thought about, hosted services are the only real consideration. Cloud computing is a foregone conclusion (real cloud, not what people elsewhere call cloud to sound cool.) DevOps rather than traditional systems administration (there is a reason that there is a barrier to entry for IT people into this market.)
Really? This stuff is alien to someone in New York or Chicago? I'm surprised. I think this is fairly common in London now.
Very much so. Remember the bulk of the US is very computer illiterate. We don't have a European education system here to provide are normal workers with any semblance of technical knowledge and our universities are worse than our high schools. Even most college graduates cannot manage their own desktops. "Computer skills" in the US normally means typing skills and the ability to change font sizes and colours.
In NY you will see this once in a while in high end software shops, but that is about it. In general, no normal business will have this at all. Just look in Spiceworks at the number of people who claim it is 'impossible' to run a company of even eight or ten people without AD. Even in IT circles the idea of doing something outside of the prescribed Microsoft path (even when Microsoft says not to do it) is unthinkable.
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I shouldn't have said I'm interested in Californian startups, I'm interested in startups in general. Specifically, lean organisations. Startups tend to be lean because they're growing rapidly and only do things that are completely necessary. Mature organisations do things because they've always done things.
I occasionally consult for a training company. They were pretty large and then went bust because they weren't making any profit. They were bought out and the new company was tiny. It only took on the old work that was highly profitable, and ditched all the less profitable work. They're now make a healthy profit and growing. It's sad that they had to go bust for this happen. It's partly because business owners are often more obsessed with size and revenue than profits. I think it's an ego thing. Too often work is taken on to keep staff employed rather than to make profits.
There's lots of books written about lean startups. I've just started one written by the guys behind Basecamp (a Chicago startup, not Californian). It's all good stuff, but there isn't much about applying lean/startup principles to mature firms. How do you get a mature firm to think and act like a startup? It feels like trying to turn an oil tanker around compared with a sail boat. This is my obsession.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
How do you get a mature firm to think and act like a startup?
Startups run very risky, it's not something that you normally want to do with a proven business model. The models used by startups are based on taking on huge risk in order to gamble on big gains. Most startups fail and fail hard. What startups do is not likely something that you want to do.
Lean and startup are very different. Startups actually don't run as lean as you think, they need to grow rapidly so often do exactly the opposite. This is what creates the really high risk.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
It feels like trying to turn an oil tanker around compared with a sail boat. This is my obsession.
But Oil Tankers rarely sink. Sailboats do all of the time.
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@scottalanmiller said:
The difference is that most receptionists out here have as many IT skills as most L1 IT people.
I'm not being funny but exactly how many receptionists have you met out there? I've probably met hundreds around the world and I have no idea what the IT skills of any of them are. Do you ask them their views on RAID5 when they bring you a coffee of something? I appreciate that technology firms are very big in Californian but are you sure you're not getting a bit carried away?
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Startups tend to hire tons of extra people in the hopes of inflating the apparent size of the business as quickly as possible as the primary value of a startup is threatening mature companies to get them to buy them out - often only to shut them down and make them go away. But sometimes to pass on the product to a major company to productize it. The bloat then gets passed on before it becomes a problem to the start up.
Start ups are rarely focused on making profit or being sustainable. They burn investment dollars in the hopes of striking it rich before things go bust.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
@scottalanmiller said:
The difference is that most receptionists out here have as many IT skills as most L1 IT people.
I'm not being funny but exactly how many receptionists have you met out there? I've probably met hundreds around the world and I have no idea what the IT skills of any of them are. Do you ask them their views on RAID5 when they bring you a coffee of something? I appreciate that technology firms are very big in Californian but are you sure you're not getting a bit carried away?
The difference is, out here they are all doing IT. At least in these kinds of firms, not at the local law firm. In startups the receptionists are actually doing physical IT. You can just watch them do it. It's truly a different world.
I've seen at least five just today.
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What were they doing?
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@Carnival-Boy said:
I've probably met hundreds around the world and I have no idea what the IT skills of any of them are. Do you ask them their views on RAID5 when they bring you a coffee of something?
That's because they are not doing IT. Most IT pros don't even know what RAID 5 is. It's actually a "less than half" skill. And even those that know what it is rarely know how to apply that knowledge. L1 people do not normally know about RAID.
Receptionists and secretaries commonly do tech support in start ups. Every startup I've ever seen, in fact. I'm not sure I've ever seen a receptionist who wasn't doing, at the very least, their own support.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
What were they doing?
The things that I've been saying. Things like setting up desktops for people.
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I thought that was the Office Manager's job?
