Solved Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?
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@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@WrCombs said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@DustinB3403 said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Dashrender it makes sense, this way everything is uniform, but that has yet to have been declared in any of these posts as far as I can recall.
The trouble is that the client is having an issue, one that could be remedied by upgrading (possibly). And @WrCombs and his boss has no way to really get the client to pay for that upgrade, without having tested it out.
So the issue is a shit-sandwich that everyone has to take a large bite out of.
I'm not sure how the billing works for these clients - do they pay @WrCombs company a monthly fee to 'support them' or do they pay by the hour for break fix?
if it's monthly - damn - just upgrade the site already and move on.
if it's hourly - well the client gets to decide - PERIOD. Now the question is - what does the client get to decide between? If @WrCombs company doesn't support mixed environments, then the client could see a HUGE bill for a single system issue (i.e. upgrading the whole site), or if they do support mixed environments, then just upgrade that one machine.
Option three - replace the computer.They pay a monthly Fee for support - however as my boss has said to me and i cant challenge it - We dont upgrade OS versions. We will have to sell new hardware/software. for everyone - IDK why we do it that way, but what my boss says goes..
Then that is the policy and the only solution to the problem is to sell them a new system. The client either accepts that or they fire your company and finds a new vendor to support what they have that will think "outside the box" and upgrade that failing machine.
Exactly. It's a ridiculous situation, but not as ridiculous as the customer keeping the vendor around.
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@scottalanmiller said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@WrCombs said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@DustinB3403 said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Dashrender it makes sense, this way everything is uniform, but that has yet to have been declared in any of these posts as far as I can recall.
The trouble is that the client is having an issue, one that could be remedied by upgrading (possibly). And @WrCombs and his boss has no way to really get the client to pay for that upgrade, without having tested it out.
So the issue is a shit-sandwich that everyone has to take a large bite out of.
I'm not sure how the billing works for these clients - do they pay @WrCombs company a monthly fee to 'support them' or do they pay by the hour for break fix?
if it's monthly - damn - just upgrade the site already and move on.
if it's hourly - well the client gets to decide - PERIOD. Now the question is - what does the client get to decide between? If @WrCombs company doesn't support mixed environments, then the client could see a HUGE bill for a single system issue (i.e. upgrading the whole site), or if they do support mixed environments, then just upgrade that one machine.
Option three - replace the computer.They pay a monthly Fee for support - however as my boss has said to me and i cant challenge it - We dont upgrade OS versions. We will have to sell new hardware/software. for everyone - IDK why we do it that way, but what my boss says goes..
It makes big time money. It's an obvious business choice.
Absolutely, yeah we could try and fix that issue, but instead we really would rather charge you upwards of 6 figures for a new system, migration time, training and hope you forget all about the issues you had because we don't actually support the systems we sell. (we actually just install them and hope they last a few years until such a time that you think you've gotten what you paid for)
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@DustinB3403 said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
If your employer offered support, it would include things such as troubleshooting software and OS issues. But because you are explicitly told to not upgrade a client unless they've purchased new servers software and hardware are you not actually offering support.
This is a total scott type of thing to say, and is total crap! of course they offer support, support of the existing environment. What they don't offer is changing environments to solve issues. If that's required, then you have to buy new hardware. Shitty place to be, but it's the place his company decided to be.
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@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@DustinB3403 said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
If your employer offered support, it would include things such as troubleshooting software and OS issues. But because you are explicitly told to not upgrade a client unless they've purchased new servers software and hardware are you not actually offering support.
This is a total scott type of thing to say, and is total crap! of course they offer support, support of the existing environment. What they don't offer is changing environments to solve issues. If that's required, then you have to buy new hardware. Shitty place to be, but it's the place his company decided to be.
That's the same exact thing as not offering support. If upgrading the site (as a whole) or even just 1 kiosk fixes the issue, than support should offer that.
Instead it's a stance of, nope you only paid me once about X years ago, so I'm going to charge you again in full for a solution to your problem.
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@DustinB3403 said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
I support and sell printers - brands Canon, Xerox, Epson etc.
But what it seems like is that you Sell a product, and offer the facade of support within the ecosystem that was sold.
You can't compare something like a printer to a workstation/PC.... it's not like you can get Xerox firmware and put it on a Canon printer... it's also not like you can (at least not likely) take the firmware for the next gen printer and put it on your old gen printer... apple and oranges.
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@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
This is a total scott type of thing to say, and is total crap! of course they offer support, support of the existing environment.
But that's a total Dashrender thing to say. They aren't offering standard IT support, they are intentionally withholding it. They have no fix whatsoever that they will do, period. They have a free fix available to try and refuse choosing, instead, to do nothing (or things that they have shown in the past to not work.)
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@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
What they don't offer is changing environments to solve issues.
Calling standard updates "changing the environment" is a cop out. Yes, it's a change, all support is. So really you just said that they don't offer support.
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@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
If that's required, then you have to buy new hardwar
Not if they offered support for what is there. Any of us could attempt that support without new hardware.
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@DustinB3403 said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@DustinB3403 said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
If your employer offered support, it would include things such as troubleshooting software and OS issues. But because you are explicitly told to not upgrade a client unless they've purchased new servers software and hardware are you not actually offering support.
This is a total scott type of thing to say, and is total crap! of course they offer support, support of the existing environment. What they don't offer is changing environments to solve issues. If that's required, then you have to buy new hardware. Shitty place to be, but it's the place his company decided to be.
That's the same exact thing as not offering support. If upgrading the site (as a whole) or even just 1 kiosk fixes the issue, than support should offer that.
Instead it's a stance of, nope you only paid me once about X years ago, so I'm going to charge you again in full for a solution to your problem.
Not at all - they have a very narrow scope for support - to stay within the OS that the device came with. If they can't solve it within that scope, they consider it unsolvable.
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@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
Not at all - they have a very narrow scope for support - to stay within the OS that the device came with. If they can't solve it within that scope, they consider it unsolvabl
"Consider it unsolvable" is just saying "not offering support." If you don't offer standard IT support and call it something else, that doesn't change things.
And Windows 10 is the same OS. No one is asking them to change to a different OS. No one is asking money to be spent. Just upgrading the existing OS along the path it should have been upgrading along since day one.
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@scottalanmiller said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
This is a total scott type of thing to say, and is total crap! of course they offer support, support of the existing environment.
But that's a total Dashrender thing to say. They aren't offering standard IT support, they are intentionally withholding it. They have no fix whatsoever that they will do, period. They have a free fix available to try and refuse choosing, instead, to do nothing (or things that they have shown in the past to not work.)
Hell yeah they're intentionally withholding typical IT Support, but hey, they can do that if they want, and clearly, currently - they do.
Is it right - nope, at least not to us.
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Bottom line, you keep describing how they "don't offer support", but try to "spin it" to sound better. But it's always "not offering support".
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@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
Not at all - they have a very narrow scope for support - to stay within the OS that the device came with. If they can't solve it within that scope, they consider it unsolvable.
Okay . . but bug fixes and security patches are within the OS that came with the device. As has been described, even these aren't being installed.
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@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@scottalanmiller said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
This is a total scott type of thing to say, and is total crap! of course they offer support, support of the existing environment.
But that's a total Dashrender thing to say. They aren't offering standard IT support, they are intentionally withholding it. They have no fix whatsoever that they will do, period. They have a free fix available to try and refuse choosing, instead, to do nothing (or things that they have shown in the past to not work.)
Hell yeah they're intentionally withholding typical IT Support, but hey, they can do that if they want, and clearly, currently - they do.
Is it right - nope, at least not to us.
They can do it, but they can't do it while claiming to offer support.
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@scottalanmiller said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
What they don't offer is changing environments to solve issues.
Calling standard updates "changing the environment" is a cop out. Yes, it's a change, all support is. So really you just said that they don't offer support.
An OS upgrade is anything but a standard update (well, in Windows that was true until Windows 10 and their frequent OS upgrades).
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@scottalanmiller said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
If that's required, then you have to buy new hardwar
Not if they offered support for what is there. Any of us could attempt that support without new hardware.
They did? have you seen the contracts? I haven't. Perhaps they say they will not upgrade the system - that instead a new purchase is required.
Frankly - this seems like a good time to create a new SKU - an upgrade SKU, i.e. we don't upgrade you to new OSes as part of the typical paid monthly maintenance. You can purchase a time by time upgrade to the OS when desired.
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@DustinB3403 said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
Not at all - they have a very narrow scope for support - to stay within the OS that the device came with. If they can't solve it within that scope, they consider it unsolvable.
Okay . . but bug fixes and security patches are within the OS that came with the device. As has been described, even these aren't being installed.
They're not? OK I missed that.
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@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
They did? have you seen the contracts? I haven't. Perhaps they say they will not upgrade the system - that instead a new purchase is required.
No one is arguing that they might not have told them up front that they were not offering support. You are bringing in unrelated factors. Just because they don't offer support doesn't suggest that they claimed to.
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@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
Frankly - this seems like a good time to create a new SKU - an upgrade SKU, i.e. we don't upgrade you to new OSes as part of the typical paid monthly maintenance. You can purchase a time by time upgrade to the OS when desired.
Define upgrade vs patching. It can be done, kind of, but I'd like to see you try to put it in writing.
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@WrCombs Do you work for [PM me to verify], it's the only vendor I can find that is a certified partner in Omaha, NE within the Hospitality space.
If so I want to confirm so I can make sure that if I ever have to deal with a PoS environment that we aren't laden with the burden that is sudo-support from them.
