Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email
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@Obsolesce said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
Trashcan at the top deletes the thread, hamburger menu deletes the selected email.
Which is explicitly the wrong behaviour. It should delete what was selected (the email) not the thread that it brought along with it. So that was my point all along.
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@scottalanmiller said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
@Obsolesce said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
Huh? I explained in in the post with my screenshot.
No, that was a workaround. What does the trashcan icon do.
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So what I select, an email, is not what gets actioned upon. And as someone else pointed out, this interface is not consistent between vendors. Again, that's part of the point. It's unique and unclear to each vendor. There is no agreement as to what the interface should even try to do. The only thing that can be determined is that it is not clear. Clarity is impossible in this case, as there is no agreed upon implied action. But the most obvious action, deleting what was selected, is not what it does. That you had to learn that, rather than having an intuitive interface that can tell you, is what makes the system confusing.
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@scottalanmiller said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
@Obsolesce said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
Trashcan at the top deletes the thread, hamburger menu deletes the selected email.
Which is explicitly the wrong behaviour. It should delete what was selected (the email) not the thread that it brought along with it. So that was my point all along.
No it shouldn't.
It should be exactly how it is. The top is the conversation as a whole. If i want to delete a specific email within a conversation, i'll select that individual email, just as I would in non-conversation view.
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@Obsolesce said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
@scottalanmiller said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
@Obsolesce said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
Huh? I explained in in the post with my screenshot.
No, that was a workaround. What does the trashcan icon do.
Sorry, missed that. But that's my point... it doesn't do what you'd want or expect.
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@Obsolesce said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
It should be exactly how it is. The top is the conversation as a whole.
But I don't select a conversation to read, only an email. Then it deletes other emails that it decides are associated (which normally they are, but not always.)
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@scottalanmiller said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
@Obsolesce said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
@scottalanmiller said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
@Obsolesce said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
Huh? I explained in in the post with my screenshot.
No, that was a workaround. What does the trashcan icon do.
Sorry, missed that. But that's my point... it doesn't do what you'd want or expect.
I expect it to delete the conversation if I click the trash can at the top that encompases the entire thread. And guess what, that's exactly what happens.
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@Obsolesce said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
I expect it to delete the conversation if I click the trash can at the top that encompases the entire thread. And guess what, that's exactly what happens.
Yes, but you had to learn that behaviour. It's not intuitive because we don't read a conversation, we read an email. We select an email, then select delete, and more than what we intentionally select is what is deleted. See the disconnect?
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@scottalanmiller said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
@Obsolesce said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
It should be exactly how it is. The top is the conversation as a whole.
But I don't select a conversation to read, only an email. Then it deletes other emails that it decides are associated (which normally they are, but not always.)
Here's where your confusion is. You are assuming things should be the same always no matter how you have it. That's not how anything works.
If you select the conversation, the delete button deletes the conversation. When you select an email within a conversation, you click to delete just that email. It's just something you learn one time in 1 second. it's really a non-issue.
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@scottalanmiller said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
Yes, but you had to learn that behaviour.
Lol... welcome to life.
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@Obsolesce said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
Here's where your confusion is. You are assuming things should be the same always no matter how you have it. That's not how anything works.
No, my confusion is that it isn't intuitive and has to be learned on a case by case basis. You are only able to avoid confusion by either having an assumption that all systems will work the one way you assume, or by memorizing each one. It is my lack of assumption that leads to a grey area. It is your assumptions, or learned behaviour, that allow you to know what it might do.
That when I select something I don't know if it is an email or a conversation until I am in it is that much more confusing.
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@Obsolesce said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
@scottalanmiller said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
Yes, but you had to learn that behaviour.
Lol... welcome to life.
But... that's the point. We do NOT need to do this without the conversation view. It's intuitive and needs no learning. And there is no chance of forgetting.
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@scottalanmiller said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
No, my confusion is that it isn't intuitive
In your opinion. But it is intuitive. I've never had any confusion over it, nor does anyone I've come across.
I don't hear of anyone out of thousands of users complaining that they just keep on deleting email after email because they can't figure it out.
It's insanely intuitive. It's clear the top trashcan symbol deletes the thread/conversation. I find it odd that it's not intuitive to you. From your inbox (when you can see your list of emails/conversations), you click into either an email, or a thread (if there's more than one email to it). What you then see is the latest email in the thread, the others collapsed. NOTHING IS SELECTED. But from there, you can simply click on a previous email in the thread.
You'll have to go up to some random innocent person without bias, with Gmail already open, ask them to click into a thread, then ask them what the trashcan does. I don't know what else to say.
Perhaps it's hard for you to understand and think it's not intuitive because you personally find it confusing, but you're the only one I know, and maybe one or two others here hitch hiking on your bandwagon.
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@Obsolesce said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
In your opinion. But it is intuitive. I've never had any confusion over it, nor does anyone I've come across.
Not quite true, as I'm not even the one who brought it up in this thread alone.
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@Obsolesce said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
Perhaps it's hard for you to understand and think it's not intuitive because you personally find it confusing, but you're the only one I know, and maybe one or two others here hitch hiking on your bandwago
You are comparing against people who use a single, CV view all day, every day. But in the real world we deal with people who only see it once in a while. So your examples show why you are getting a skewed view... you have a single set of people under conditions where no matter how confusing it is, it wouldn't matter. Clearly you see that that's nothing like being thrown into something once in a while and having to figure out a unique system every time.
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@Obsolesce said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
You'll have to go up to some random innocent person without bias, with Gmail already open, ask them to click into a thread, then ask them what the trashcan does. I don't know what else to say.
That's more or less what we see on a semi-regular basis. People who only use CV once in a while and even that it is CV isn't clear necessarily. It's not like it says it somewhere.
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Lol moral of this thread is "I don't like conversation view therefore it's stupid and should be banned and anyone who uses it is stupid and doesn't understand organization. Is that about right?
I'm with the others who use CV exclusively. There's no tricks to it or steep learning curve. It keeps things very organized for me. It's easy to delete one e-mail or the entire thread without confusion. I can move individual emails or entire threads into folders without hassle. I don't understand all the confusion and hate.
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@scottalanmiller said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
@bnrstnr said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
@IRJ said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
I use it as well. I do hate focused inbox and turn that off. Like you mentioned, I never have issues finding new emails, they always appear at the top. I think the reason people don't see emails is because they have CV and have a very extensive folder system where they miss a notification there, but not because CV view.
There are a few people I work with that sort all emails into a like a million different folders. It's awful. Every time they need to look something up they're searching through folders like crazy. Just leave it all in one place and use the search bar at the top...
No experience with CV though, and focused was certainly a waste of programming time.
I sort into ONE folder. I archive everything I'm done with in one place (okay two, one for work stuff, one for personal.) That's all. So it makes sorting WAY cleaner. But it means CV can't work.
Just archiving mails so that they aren't in your inbox, considered the most basic way people should use email, makes CV a huge problem.
All of my folders are subfolders of my Inbox, so although my Inbox itself is kept clean, I can easily search my Inbox and it searches the entirety of all subfolders. CV doesn't make this any more or less complicated.
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@zachary715 said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
All of my folders are subfolders of my Inbox, so although my Inbox itself is kept clean, I can easily search my Inbox and it searches the entirety of all subfolders. CV doesn't make this any more or less complicated.
Me, too. But every system handles broken up threads like that differently.
