Remote Desktop Services - How To Get Started?
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@Dashrender said:
I'll disagree with the entirely!
You can log in locally, when installed on raw hardware - and use that as a desktop any way you like... but virtualize it... all bets are off and I have no idea what the rules really are.
There is a virtualization change for VDI when using the workstation licensing. My understanding is that this does not, and never has, applied to servers. Servers, unlike the desktops, have a license for one user of any type, one additional admin user and the option to license more via RDS. I've never heard of there being any other restriction and Microsoft themselves have recommended these use cases so I find it unlikely that it is incorrect.
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Do you have a link to MS stating the remote sessions are 1 for whatever use and one for admin use? I'd love to have that link in my back pocket.
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You do not need CALs for up to two devices or users to access your instances as long as these users or devices are
only administering the instances. In the case of Windows Server 2012 only, you do not need a CAL to access an
instance of the server software running on the physical OSE that is being used solely to:
- list item run hardware virtualization software,
- list item provide hardware virtualization services,
- list itemor, run software to manage and service operating system environments on the licensed server.
However, you do need the appropriate CAL to access instances of the server software in any virtual OSEs on the server.
Not sure if that helps clear it up at all. Looks like you do need proper licensing in a virtual environment.
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@coliver said:
You do not need CALs for up to two devices or users to access your instances as long as these users or devices are
only administering the instances. In the case of Windows Server 2012 only, you do not need a CAL to access an
instance of the server software running on the physical OSE that is being used solely to:
- list item run hardware virtualization software,
- list item provide hardware virtualization services,
- list itemor, run software to manage and service operating system environments on the licensed server.
However, you do need the appropriate CAL to access instances of the server software in any virtual OSEs on the server.
Not sure if that helps clear it up at all. Looks like you do need proper licensing in a virtual environment.
That looks pretty cut and dry to me. So much for using Windows Server OSs as a way to skirt around VDI.
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@coliver said:
You do not need CALs for up to two devices or users to access your instances as long as these users or devices are
only administering the instances. In the case of Windows Server 2012 only, you do not need a CAL to access an
instance of the server software running on the physical OSE that is being used solely to:
- list item run hardware virtualization software,
- list item provide hardware virtualization services,
- list itemor, run software to manage and service operating system environments on the licensed server.
However, you do need the appropriate CAL to access instances of the server software in any virtual OSEs on the server.
Not sure if that helps clear it up at all. Looks like you do need proper licensing in a virtual environment.
Isn't that a reference to Server CALs? Where does RDS come into play here?
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@Dashrender said:
That looks pretty cut and dry to me. So much for using Windows Server OSs as a way to skirt around VDI.
I must have missed something. Where do you see that?
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you do need the appropriate CAL to access instances of the server software in any virtual OSEs on the server
I don't read this as limiting to only Windows Server CALs, but any kind of CAL needed for access.
Furthermore,
You do not need CALs for up to two devices or users to access your instances as long as these users or devices are
only administering the instances.This would preclude you from running a desktop like app, say Office for example, and using the two RDS instances without an RDS license.
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@Dashrender said:
you do need the appropriate CAL to access instances of the server software in any virtual OSEs on the server
I don't read this as limiting to only Windows Server CALs, but any kind of CAL needed for access.
But it is just about Server CALs. Especially as that is the only kind needed for access. This is anything but cut and dry, in fact it implies that opposite of what you are thinking. It only states what we should have already known, server CALs were always required for using server resources and RDS CALs have never applies outside of RDS. RDP for one user is not RDS.
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@Dashrender said:
Furthermore,
You do not need CALs for up to two devices or users to access your instances as long as these users or devices are
only administering the instances.This would preclude you from running a desktop like app, say Office for example, and using the two RDS instances without an RDS license.
It does not say that in any way. It says that you can skip having Server CALs if you are using accounts for no purpose other than system administration. How are you associating RDS with this? Why not SQL Server or Exchange CALs? They also are not in use here but are CAL for products that can be added to Server.
How is RDS getting involved here at all?
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I think that there might be just a general confusion about what is a Server CAL (the CALs in discussion in the server docs) and what other CALs, like RDS, are.
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@Reid-Cooper said:
I think that there might be just a general confusion about what is a Server CAL (the CALs in discussion in the server docs) and what other CALs, like RDS, are.
I do understand the difference.
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@Dashrender said:
I do understand the difference.
But you are applying RDS when Server CALs are mentioned. Microsoft's docs say Server CALs and then you read that as RDS CALs. I'm unsure why you feel RDS is even in the discussion let alone a cut and dry requirement when it isn't even mentioned at all. If it was required, it seems like Microsoft would have brought it up since they took the time to document that Server CALs were needed. That a completely unrelated CAL would be needed and that there is no way to guess that it would even apply seems like something that would need to be brought up.
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From TechNet from March, 2014: "It is also worth pointing out that RDS CALs are required in a VDI deployment when any of the RDS components are used to support it (e.g. Remote Desktop Web Access, Remote Desktop Gateway, Remote Desktop Connection Broker, Remote Desktop Session Host, or the Remote Desktop Virtualization Host."
So since RDS is not in use, RDS CALs are not needed. Seems pretty cut and dry that RDS is not involved, right?
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The OP mentioned installing a Server VM - if not RDS/RDP how will he be accessing the server? you're probably going to say through Logmein or VNC. I'm saying that it's my belief that you can't use any connection method in the 'free' status for any purpose other than administration.
The instant you install desktop application for use (we'll continue to use Office as an example) you must pay for a connection method, and since the server is virtualized, you must buy a RDS license or VDI license.
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@coliver said:
@Reid-Cooper said:
@Dashrender I do not believe that RDS is needed for a single user of any function. The server should act as a desktop here allowing for one user, at any time, to use the server as a desktop or desktop-like machine. It is because of this that RDS licensing is not needed when using Microsoft's Datacenter licensing in a one to one user ratio for VDI.
This was who I understood it as well. RDP was a one-to-one type of interface where RDS was many-to-one/many type of interface. Otherwise wouldn't you be breaking your licensing every time you remote in to do admin tasks on a non-windows server software?
Not if you're doing it for adminstration. There's a big difference between admining the backup software, and running a LOB.
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@Dashrender said:
The OP mentioned installing a Server VM - if not RDS/RDP how will he be accessing the server?
RDP is not RDS. RDP is available for one to two users. RDS is for more than that and includes more components, as those listed above. RDS is an additional server role that does more things than RDP does alone. RDP is available on all Windows products, including desktops, while RDS is available only on some servers. RDP is not RDS. That someone is using RDP does not imply that RDS is involved.
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@Reid-Cooper said:
@Dashrender said:
@Reid-Cooper I thought I mentioned (maybe it was another thread) that I could be wrong on the first two sessions which are allowed for administration purposes.
The second one is definitely only for administration. But my understanding is that the first is always open to any user. Otherwise it would stop you from ever being able to use a server as a desktop, which has always been allowed.
In an OSE, i.e. non virtual.
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@Dashrender said:
Not if you're doing it for adminstration. There's a big difference between admining the backup software, and running a LOB.
Sorry, misunderstood.
Dashrender is correct, no licensing, not even Server CALs is needed for basic system admin tasks unless you have more than two admins needing to do so at once.
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@Dashrender said:
In an OSE, i.e. non virtual.
That's not as stated by Microsoft. They did not differentiate when talking about RDS.
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@Dashrender said:
The instant you install desktop application for use (we'll continue to use Office as an example) you must pay for a connection method, and since the server is virtualized, you must buy a RDS license or VDI license.
Where do you see that stated? Nothing supplied in this thread states or even implies this from Microsoft. But the opposite is stated clearly in their FAQ.
