question about setting up a new domain controller
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@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
VAR
I'm currently seeking information from CDW on this..
No, you CAN'T use a VAR with Exchange Online. You will be SCREWED. There is ONE thing to know about cloud services, and it is that you never involve a VAR.
Well where the hell do I find a partner then?
I provided one
NTG is a partner.Anyone working with Office 365 that doesn't sell it is a partner.
Is there some time of list somewhere that IT pros are magically supposed to know which are VARs and which are partners? When I had NTG setup for one my clients, NTG sold it to them the first year, so simply saying, not selling it is incorrect (unless, and totally likely, my memory is wrong on the selling part).
Exactly. This is freaking maddening.
It shouldn't be. It should be incredibly simple. I'm not sure why everyone is acting like it's not really clear. Resellers take your money, partners do not. One introduces you to Microsoft; the other blocks you from Microsoft.
Now finding someone when you know no one, that's a little harder. But MS will always introduce you if you ask.
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@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
VAR
I'm currently seeking information from CDW on this..
No, you CAN'T use a VAR with Exchange Online. You will be SCREWED. There is ONE thing to know about cloud services, and it is that you never involve a VAR.
Well where the hell do I find a partner then?
I provided one
NTG is a partner.Anyone working with Office 365 that doesn't sell it is a partner.
Is there some time of list somewhere that IT pros are magically supposed to know which are VARs and which are partners? When I had NTG setup for one my clients, NTG sold it to them the first year, so simply saying, not selling it is incorrect (unless, and totally likely, my memory is wrong on the selling part).
Exactly. This is freaking maddening.
Yep, you have no clue you're screwed by a VAR until they have you and you try to use a function that they have disabled... from then on, you're just hosed. Even killing your account can take months (if ever) to close down so you could open a new account directly or via a partner to get back to 'normal' O365...
Yes, if you go to a reseller you are stuck with things like "But I was told that O365 has 50GB per mailbox, why am I only getting 20GB."
"Oh, that's because we are powered by Office 365, you actually bought Bob's Hosted Email service and nothing you read about O365 applies because that's not what you bought."
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@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
When I had NTG setup for one my clients, NTG sold it to them the first year, so simply saying, not selling it is incorrect (unless, and totally likely, my memory is wrong on the selling part).
This is not possible as NTG has never been a reseller and has never had the ability to do something like that. Selling is incorrect. NTG made the connection by introducing the two parties, but that is all.
It's been 2 years - I am pretty sure NTG had to open the account for me, and then give me access. Perhaps it's correct to say I paid MS directly, but pretty sure NTG opened the account originally (that was also a NFP company - so that could have been a difference). As for my my personal (O365 Business) account opened via NTG, I just can't recall the setup process.
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@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
When I had NTG setup for one my clients, NTG sold it to them the first year, so simply saying, not selling it is incorrect (unless, and totally likely, my memory is wrong on the selling part).
This is not possible as NTG has never been a reseller and has never had the ability to do something like that. Selling is incorrect. NTG made the connection by introducing the two parties, but that is all.
It's been 2 years - I am pretty sure NTG had to open the account for me, and then give me access. Perhaps it's correct to say I paid MS directly, but pretty sure NTG opened the account originally (that was also a NFP company - so that could have been a difference). As for my my personal (O365 Business) account opened via NTG, I just can't recall the setup process.
Open the account, maybe, but not take the money.
Not for Profits is a bit different as there is no money involved
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@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
VAR
I'm currently seeking information from CDW on this..
No, you CAN'T use a VAR with Exchange Online. You will be SCREWED. There is ONE thing to know about cloud services, and it is that you never involve a VAR.
Well where the hell do I find a partner then?
I provided one
NTG is a partner.Anyone working with Office 365 that doesn't sell it is a partner.
Is there some time of list somewhere that IT pros are magically supposed to know which are VARs and which are partners? When I had NTG setup for one my clients, NTG sold it to them the first year, so simply saying, not selling it is incorrect (unless, and totally likely, my memory is wrong on the selling part).
Exactly. This is freaking maddening.
It shouldn't be. It should be incredibly simple. I'm not sure why everyone is acting like it's not really clear. Resellers take your money, partners do not. One introduces you to Microsoft; the other blocks you from Microsoft.
Now finding someone when you know no one, that's a little harder. But MS will always introduce you if you ask.
Learning that this is even a question you need to ask seems weird to me, but more important, where would you learn that you need to ask it other than bumping into a thread like this?
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@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
When I had NTG setup for one my clients, NTG sold it to them the first year, so simply saying, not selling it is incorrect (unless, and totally likely, my memory is wrong on the selling part).
This is not possible as NTG has never been a reseller and has never had the ability to do something like that. Selling is incorrect. NTG made the connection by introducing the two parties, but that is all.
It's been 2 years - I am pretty sure NTG had to open the account for me, and then give me access. Perhaps it's correct to say I paid MS directly, but pretty sure NTG opened the account originally (that was also a NFP company - so that could have been a difference). As for my my personal (O365 Business) account opened via NTG, I just can't recall the setup process.
Open the account, maybe, but not take the money.
Not for Profits is a bit different as there is no money involved
yes there is. It's not free, but something like $4/m/u for E3.
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@dave247 I look forward to working with you!
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@minion-queen said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 I look forward to working with you!
Hey long time!
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@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@minion-queen said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 I look forward to working with you!
Hey long time!
I know right? So busy
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In the cloud space, the idea of a reseller is very different from in the physical space. Reselling a box that just passes through you is pretty simple as a concept. It's a product being resold. But hosted services, like Hosted Exchange, aren't a product, they are a service. So reselling it bring in all kinds of "how is this supposed to work" problems.
Think of it like an ISP... your last mile carrier might offer one thing to you, but then buy something else from their upstream carrier. What you get is not likely to be as good as the upstream carrier is offering, and might was heavily limited by the downstream last mile provider. You can't look at the features and benefits that the upstream is offering to their customers and assume that your last mile carrier is going to pass those on to you. They might, but often they will not.
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@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
VAR
I'm currently seeking information from CDW on this..
No, you CAN'T use a VAR with Exchange Online. You will be SCREWED. There is ONE thing to know about cloud services, and it is that you never involve a VAR.
Well where the hell do I find a partner then?
I provided one
NTG is a partner.Anyone working with Office 365 that doesn't sell it is a partner.
Is there some time of list somewhere that IT pros are magically supposed to know which are VARs and which are partners?
This is one of those weird things that I never understand. Never in my life have I not just known when someone is selling me something and when someone is advising me.
ok let me try to explain it to you. If I have to buy a product to use, I have to get that product from somewhere and that usually means interfacing with another person that belongs to a company. At this point, the ability to see what's going on behind the scenes disappears. I don't know all the inner-workings of the various companies that have changed together a sales channel that turns the customer's money into the product/services they want. If I specifically ask every person I interact with, it may help, but I'm sure they will respond in a way that isn't blatantly obvious that they are one of many parasites trying to suck money out of you while you try to purchase something.
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@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
VAR
I'm currently seeking information from CDW on this..
No, you CAN'T use a VAR with Exchange Online. You will be SCREWED. There is ONE thing to know about cloud services, and it is that you never involve a VAR.
Well where the hell do I find a partner then?
I provided one
NTG is a partner.Anyone working with Office 365 that doesn't sell it is a partner.
Is there some time of list somewhere that IT pros are magically supposed to know which are VARs and which are partners? When I had NTG setup for one my clients, NTG sold it to them the first year, so simply saying, not selling it is incorrect (unless, and totally likely, my memory is wrong on the selling part).
Exactly. This is freaking maddening.
It shouldn't be. It should be incredibly simple. I'm not sure why everyone is acting like it's not really clear. Resellers take your money, partners do not. One introduces you to Microsoft; the other blocks you from Microsoft.
Now finding someone when you know no one, that's a little harder. But MS will always introduce you if you ask.
Learning that this is even a question you need to ask seems weird to me, but more important, where would you learn that you need to ask it other than bumping into a thread like this?
It's part of the overhead of working with a vendor. Any vendor partner, whether your CRM vendor or Microsoft or Apple, etc. has things that you need to know about interacting with them as a company. In the case of small companies, you learn these things by talking to them directly. When you are a monopoly position like MS, it is considered things that you are expected to research and learn before choosing them as a vendor. It's part of working in the MS space, I'm afraid. MS has this information out there, that's how we learn it. They offer loads and loads of training and conferences and stuff (all free.) They talk about these things in their customer training.
Sadly, but there is no way around this as it is a vendor thing not an IT thing, you will always need to know how to properly interact with any vendor that you choose to work with and knowing how they work is part of the factors in choosing them.
As always, no SMBs are not expected to know all this internally, but they are expected to work with IT outsourcing that does.
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@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
VAR
I'm currently seeking information from CDW on this..
No, you CAN'T use a VAR with Exchange Online. You will be SCREWED. There is ONE thing to know about cloud services, and it is that you never involve a VAR.
Well where the hell do I find a partner then?
I provided one
NTG is a partner.Anyone working with Office 365 that doesn't sell it is a partner.
Is there some time of list somewhere that IT pros are magically supposed to know which are VARs and which are partners?
This is one of those weird things that I never understand. Never in my life have I not just known when someone is selling me something and when someone is advising me.
ok let me try to explain it to you. If I have to buy a product to use, I have to get that product from somewhere and that usually means interfacing with another person that belongs to a company. At this point, the ability to see what's going on behind the scenes disappears. I don't know all the inner-workings of the various companies that have changed together a sales channel that turns the customer's money into the product/services they want. If I specifically ask every person I interact with, it may help, but I'm sure they will respond in a way that isn't blatantly obvious that they are one of many parasites trying to suck money out of you while you try to purchase something.
You have no need to know the inner-workings. You know to whom you hand your credit card. It's that simple. Are you paying Microsoft, or are you paying someone else? You want a Microsoft service, you pay Microsoft only. If you want a GoDaddy service (that MS may or may not service to them), then you pay GoDaddy.
The interface to you tells you everything that you need to know if the case of Office 365.
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@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
VAR
I'm currently seeking information from CDW on this..
No, you CAN'T use a VAR with Exchange Online. You will be SCREWED. There is ONE thing to know about cloud services, and it is that you never involve a VAR.
Well where the hell do I find a partner then?
I provided one
NTG is a partner.Anyone working with Office 365 that doesn't sell it is a partner.
Is there some time of list somewhere that IT pros are magically supposed to know which are VARs and which are partners? When I had NTG setup for one my clients, NTG sold it to them the first year, so simply saying, not selling it is incorrect (unless, and totally likely, my memory is wrong on the selling part).
Exactly. This is freaking maddening.
It shouldn't be. It should be incredibly simple. I'm not sure why everyone is acting like it's not really clear. Resellers take your money, partners do not. One introduces you to Microsoft; the other blocks you from Microsoft.
Now finding someone when you know no one, that's a little harder. But MS will always introduce you if you ask.
Learning that this is even a question you need to ask seems weird to me, but more important, where would you learn that you need to ask it other than bumping into a thread like this?
As always, no SMBs are not expected to know all this internally, but they are expected to work with IT outsourcing that does.
That's the biggest problem I see right now. Everyone I've dealt with is basically a salesman. I can't seem to identify a single true consultant or partner.
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@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
VAR
I'm currently seeking information from CDW on this..
No, you CAN'T use a VAR with Exchange Online. You will be SCREWED. There is ONE thing to know about cloud services, and it is that you never involve a VAR.
Well where the hell do I find a partner then?
I provided one
NTG is a partner.Anyone working with Office 365 that doesn't sell it is a partner.
Is there some time of list somewhere that IT pros are magically supposed to know which are VARs and which are partners?
This is one of those weird things that I never understand. Never in my life have I not just known when someone is selling me something and when someone is advising me.
ok let me try to explain it to you. If I have to buy a product to use, I have to get that product from somewhere and that usually means interfacing with another person that belongs to a company. At this point, the ability to see what's going on behind the scenes disappears. I don't know all the inner-workings of the various companies that have changed together a sales channel that turns the customer's money into the product/services they want. If I specifically ask every person I interact with, it may help, but I'm sure they will respond in a way that isn't blatantly obvious that they are one of many parasites trying to suck money out of you while you try to purchase something.
You have no need to know the inner-workings. You know to whom you hand your credit card. It's that simple. Are you paying Microsoft, or are you paying someone else? You want a Microsoft service, you pay Microsoft only. If you want a GoDaddy service (that MS may or may not service to them), then you pay GoDaddy.
The interface to you tells you everything that you need to know if the case of Office 365.
Yeah - talk about a huge minefield! Because, for example, Cisco (as far as I know) doesn't work this way. You can't buy SmartNet directly from Cisco (and even if you can, you know there are companies out there that you can't) and that you must buy the support through a third party. So it's all just a muddled mess.
But, as Scott said - that's what you pay IT the big bucks for - to learn/know these things.
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Also, Office 365 pricing never changes, Microsoft is public about the price. Resellers offer "deals", sometimes cheaper (GoDaddy), sometimes higher (Rackspace) because they are selling their own service, not O365, and can set their own prices. GD lowers the price by only buying some features of O365 to resell to you so their get it really cheap. RS layers on their own services on top of O365 and charges a premium for it.
It's possible for a reseller to keep the $4 price, but generally they don't as having a lower price is how they lure people in.
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@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
VAR
I'm currently seeking information from CDW on this..
No, you CAN'T use a VAR with Exchange Online. You will be SCREWED. There is ONE thing to know about cloud services, and it is that you never involve a VAR.
Well where the hell do I find a partner then?
I provided one
NTG is a partner.Anyone working with Office 365 that doesn't sell it is a partner.
Is there some time of list somewhere that IT pros are magically supposed to know which are VARs and which are partners? When I had NTG setup for one my clients, NTG sold it to them the first year, so simply saying, not selling it is incorrect (unless, and totally likely, my memory is wrong on the selling part).
Exactly. This is freaking maddening.
It shouldn't be. It should be incredibly simple. I'm not sure why everyone is acting like it's not really clear. Resellers take your money, partners do not. One introduces you to Microsoft; the other blocks you from Microsoft.
Now finding someone when you know no one, that's a little harder. But MS will always introduce you if you ask.
Learning that this is even a question you need to ask seems weird to me, but more important, where would you learn that you need to ask it other than bumping into a thread like this?
As always, no SMBs are not expected to know all this internally, but they are expected to work with IT outsourcing that does.
That's the biggest problem I see right now. Everyone I've dealt with is basically a salesman. I can't seem to identify a single true consultant or partner.
@NTG and @Bundy-Associates are both non-resellers. Both in regards to Office 365, and across the board.
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@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
VAR
I'm currently seeking information from CDW on this..
No, you CAN'T use a VAR with Exchange Online. You will be SCREWED. There is ONE thing to know about cloud services, and it is that you never involve a VAR.
Well where the hell do I find a partner then?
I provided one
NTG is a partner.Anyone working with Office 365 that doesn't sell it is a partner.
Is there some time of list somewhere that IT pros are magically supposed to know which are VARs and which are partners?
This is one of those weird things that I never understand. Never in my life have I not just known when someone is selling me something and when someone is advising me.
ok let me try to explain it to you. If I have to buy a product to use, I have to get that product from somewhere and that usually means interfacing with another person that belongs to a company. At this point, the ability to see what's going on behind the scenes disappears. I don't know all the inner-workings of the various companies that have changed together a sales channel that turns the customer's money into the product/services they want. If I specifically ask every person I interact with, it may help, but I'm sure they will respond in a way that isn't blatantly obvious that they are one of many parasites trying to suck money out of you while you try to purchase something.
You have no need to know the inner-workings. You know to whom you hand your credit card. It's that simple. Are you paying Microsoft, or are you paying someone else? You want a Microsoft service, you pay Microsoft only. If you want a GoDaddy service (that MS may or may not service to them), then you pay GoDaddy.
The interface to you tells you everything that you need to know if the case of Office 365.
ok then I would go directly to Microsoft's website and purchase their O365 product, but then you are telling me not to do that because I should be working with a partner. The problem now is that I can't find a single partner or anyone who isn't selling stuff.
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@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
VAR
I'm currently seeking information from CDW on this..
No, you CAN'T use a VAR with Exchange Online. You will be SCREWED. There is ONE thing to know about cloud services, and it is that you never involve a VAR.
Well where the hell do I find a partner then?
I provided one
NTG is a partner.Anyone working with Office 365 that doesn't sell it is a partner.
Is there some time of list somewhere that IT pros are magically supposed to know which are VARs and which are partners? When I had NTG setup for one my clients, NTG sold it to them the first year, so simply saying, not selling it is incorrect (unless, and totally likely, my memory is wrong on the selling part).
Exactly. This is freaking maddening.
It shouldn't be. It should be incredibly simple. I'm not sure why everyone is acting like it's not really clear. Resellers take your money, partners do not. One introduces you to Microsoft; the other blocks you from Microsoft.
Now finding someone when you know no one, that's a little harder. But MS will always introduce you if you ask.
Learning that this is even a question you need to ask seems weird to me, but more important, where would you learn that you need to ask it other than bumping into a thread like this?
As always, no SMBs are not expected to know all this internally, but they are expected to work with IT outsourcing that does.
That's the biggest problem I see right now. Everyone I've dealt with is basically a salesman. I can't seem to identify a single true consultant or partner.
Have you paid anyone to represent you in this yet? If not, then you're probably right, you haven't talked to a true consultant, etc. They only make money when you pay them for making recommendations that have your best interest in mind.
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@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
VAR
I'm currently seeking information from CDW on this..
No, you CAN'T use a VAR with Exchange Online. You will be SCREWED. There is ONE thing to know about cloud services, and it is that you never involve a VAR.
Well where the hell do I find a partner then?
I provided one
NTG is a partner.Anyone working with Office 365 that doesn't sell it is a partner.
Is there some time of list somewhere that IT pros are magically supposed to know which are VARs and which are partners? When I had NTG setup for one my clients, NTG sold it to them the first year, so simply saying, not selling it is incorrect (unless, and totally likely, my memory is wrong on the selling part).
Exactly. This is freaking maddening.
It shouldn't be. It should be incredibly simple. I'm not sure why everyone is acting like it's not really clear. Resellers take your money, partners do not. One introduces you to Microsoft; the other blocks you from Microsoft.
Now finding someone when you know no one, that's a little harder. But MS will always introduce you if you ask.
Learning that this is even a question you need to ask seems weird to me, but more important, where would you learn that you need to ask it other than bumping into a thread like this?
As always, no SMBs are not expected to know all this internally, but they are expected to work with IT outsourcing that does.
That's the biggest problem I see right now. Everyone I've dealt with is basically a salesman. I can't seem to identify a single true consultant or partner.
Most SMBs only deal with sales people, because most SMBs go out looking for free stuff and, more often, only do business with who reaches out to them rather than seeking IT resources directly. Why go looking when it keeps coming to your door, right?
There are HUGE profits in reselling, very low profits in consulting. So 99% of businesses servicing the SMB are resellers, it's literally where all of the money is. So if you don't really actively seek out consultants, none will ever get to you because either there aren't any spending the huge expense to try to introduce themselves (how do THEY find YOU problem) or they get filtered out because they cost money to engage for even the simplest things rather than being "free" like sales people.
