pricing on websites
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@dashrender said in pricing on websites:
@jaredbusch said in pricing on websites:
I suspect you are giving away a ton of your time in order to make lower fixed rate deals.
I know I did this when I used to do flat rates.. i never included my time of making the quotes.. but assuming I had an employee doing that work, who's paying them? Me - out of my profits? That's crazy talk.. The client is getting free work in this case - and that's just not good for business.
Right, and as if said it is nearly impossible to be anything other than one or the other. But not impossible. The very rare case of the flat rate and hourly matching , does exist. But it is rare. And rare for a reason. There is more risk to a flat rate that low.
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@mike-davis said in pricing on websites:
@dashrender said in pricing on websites:
That said, it's still completely possible that you could run into an issue that takes you 10+ hours to resolve. Assuming you had only 1 hour of sluff time baked in, you (your company) just lost 9 hours of billing. The customer in this case is taking advantage of you.
You're absolutely right. It has happened and I'm sure it will happen again. I just can't let it happen more often than not.
In my experience when I have quote a flat rate job the customer has never been upset about the bill at the end of the job. On hourly work, I've had to "have a sit down" to explain all the hours. This is after detailed invoices.Then tell that customer to go fly a kite. Oh, and bill them for that time too.
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@mike-davis said in pricing on websites:
@dashrender said in pricing on websites:
That said, it's still completely possible that you could run into an issue that takes you 10+ hours to resolve. Assuming you had only 1 hour of sluff time baked in, you (your company) just lost 9 hours of billing. The customer in this case is taking advantage of you.
You're absolutely right. It has happened and I'm sure it will happen again. I just can't let it happen more often than not.
In my experience when I have quote a flat rate job the customer has never been upset about the bill at the end of the job. On hourly work, I've had to "have a sit down" to explain all the hours. This is after detailed invoices.So when you sit down with them.. you explain, if this would have been flat rate, it would have cost at least 4 hours more time because 2 hours for scope building and 2 hours fluff time built in.. and dthat's assuming you guessed that it would take the exact number of hours it did take.
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@jaredbusch said in pricing on websites:
@mike-davis said in pricing on websites:
@dashrender said in pricing on websites:
That said, it's still completely possible that you could run into an issue that takes you 10+ hours to resolve. Assuming you had only 1 hour of sluff time baked in, you (your company) just lost 9 hours of billing. The customer in this case is taking advantage of you.
You're absolutely right. It has happened and I'm sure it will happen again. I just can't let it happen more often than not.
In my experience when I have quote a flat rate job the customer has never been upset about the bill at the end of the job. On hourly work, I've had to "have a sit down" to explain all the hours. This is after detailed invoices.Then tell that customer to go fly a kite. Oh, and bill them for that time too.
You could always offer them a flat rate - but be aware that it will be at least 4 hours costs over what you 'think' the job will cost because of the scope building time (not job related) and the risk fluff time.
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@dashrender said in pricing on websites:
@jaredbusch said in pricing on websites:
@mike-davis said in pricing on websites:
@dashrender said in pricing on websites:
That said, it's still completely possible that you could run into an issue that takes you 10+ hours to resolve. Assuming you had only 1 hour of sluff time baked in, you (your company) just lost 9 hours of billing. The customer in this case is taking advantage of you.
You're absolutely right. It has happened and I'm sure it will happen again. I just can't let it happen more often than not.
In my experience when I have quote a flat rate job the customer has never been upset about the bill at the end of the job. On hourly work, I've had to "have a sit down" to explain all the hours. This is after detailed invoices.Then tell that customer to go fly a kite. Oh, and bill them for that time too.
You could always offer them a flat rate - but be aware that it will be at least 4 hours costs over what you 'think' the job will cost because of the scope building time (not job related) and the risk fluff time.
4 hours? Hahahahahahahahahahha
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@mike-davis said in pricing on websites:
@dashrender said in pricing on websites:
That said, it's still completely possible that you could run into an issue that takes you 10+ hours to resolve. Assuming you had only 1 hour of sluff time baked in, you (your company) just lost 9 hours of billing. The customer in this case is taking advantage of you.
You're absolutely right. It has happened and I'm sure it will happen again. I just can't let it happen more often than not.
In my experience when I have quote a flat rate job the customer has never been upset about the bill at the end of the job. On hourly work, I've had to "have a sit down" to explain all the hours. This is after detailed invoices.Them not being upset is not a guide, they don't know what it could have or should have cost, only what you told them. Of course they aren't upset, they decided ahead of time to spend the money - even if it was more than it should have been. This is a standard marketing ploy to increase prices and one that I've had to deal with project managers about - it's a trick PMs use to prey on the emotions of managers.
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@dashrender said in pricing on websites:
@mike-davis said in pricing on websites:
@dashrender said in pricing on websites:
That said, it's still completely possible that you could run into an issue that takes you 10+ hours to resolve. Assuming you had only 1 hour of sluff time baked in, you (your company) just lost 9 hours of billing. The customer in this case is taking advantage of you.
You're absolutely right. It has happened and I'm sure it will happen again. I just can't let it happen more often than not.
In my experience when I have quote a flat rate job the customer has never been upset about the bill at the end of the job. On hourly work, I've had to "have a sit down" to explain all the hours. This is after detailed invoices.So when you sit down with them.. you explain, if this would have been flat rate, it would have cost at least 4 hours more time because 2 hours for scope building and 2 hours fluff time built in.. and dthat's assuming you guessed that it would take the exact number of hours it did take.
And bill them for explanation time, that's like an option quote time.
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@jaredbusch said in pricing on websites:
@dashrender said in pricing on websites:
@jaredbusch said in pricing on websites:
@mike-davis said in pricing on websites:
@dashrender said in pricing on websites:
That said, it's still completely possible that you could run into an issue that takes you 10+ hours to resolve. Assuming you had only 1 hour of sluff time baked in, you (your company) just lost 9 hours of billing. The customer in this case is taking advantage of you.
You're absolutely right. It has happened and I'm sure it will happen again. I just can't let it happen more often than not.
In my experience when I have quote a flat rate job the customer has never been upset about the bill at the end of the job. On hourly work, I've had to "have a sit down" to explain all the hours. This is after detailed invoices.Then tell that customer to go fly a kite. Oh, and bill them for that time too.
You could always offer them a flat rate - but be aware that it will be at least 4 hours costs over what you 'think' the job will cost because of the scope building time (not job related) and the risk fluff time.
4 hours? Hahahahahahahahahahha
I borrowed that from Scott.
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@Mike-Davis do you get email status about various things from the clients. Assuming that you do and have email rules to put them in folders, do you check those folders?
I do. Multiple times a day. It usually just a glance, but I check.
I also bill a half an hour to one hour a week for it.
Just to make sure shit ain’t broke.
This is work that means it is billed.
Are you counting that?
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@jaredbusch said in pricing on websites:
@Mike-Davis do you get email status about various things from the clients. Assuming that you do and have email rules to put them in folders, do you check those folders?
I do. Multiple times a day. It usually just a glance, but I check.
I also bill a half an hour to one hour a week for it.
Just to make sure shit ain’t broke.
This is work that mean it is billed.
Are you counting that?
It's possible that an hour isn't even enough considering the job switching time lost.
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@dashrender said in pricing on websites:
@jaredbusch said in pricing on websites:
@Mike-Davis do you get email status about various things from the clients. Assuming that you do and have email rules to put them in folders, do you check those folders?
I do. Multiple times a day. It usually just a glance, but I check.
I also bill a half an hour to one hour a week for it.
Just to make sure shit ain’t broke.
This is work that mean it is billed.
Are you counting that?
It's possible that an hour isn't even enough considering the job switching time lost.
Not anymore as I make it a routine and is not an interupt.
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@jaredbusch said in pricing on websites:
@dashrender said in pricing on websites:
@jaredbusch said in pricing on websites:
@Mike-Davis do you get email status about various things from the clients. Assuming that you do and have email rules to put them in folders, do you check those folders?
I do. Multiple times a day. It usually just a glance, but I check.
I also bill a half an hour to one hour a week for it.
Just to make sure shit ain’t broke.
This is work that mean it is billed.
Are you counting that?
It's possible that an hour isn't even enough considering the job switching time lost.
Not anymore as I make it a routine and is not an interupt.
Granted, finding an issue turns into a new ticket event. So that is always an interupt. But no different than any new incoming ticket.
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@jaredbusch said in pricing on websites:
@jaredbusch said in pricing on websites:
@dashrender said in pricing on websites:
@jaredbusch said in pricing on websites:
@Mike-Davis do you get email status about various things from the clients. Assuming that you do and have email rules to put them in folders, do you check those folders?
I do. Multiple times a day. It usually just a glance, but I check.
I also bill a half an hour to one hour a week for it.
Just to make sure shit ain’t broke.
This is work that mean it is billed.
Are you counting that?
It's possible that an hour isn't even enough considering the job switching time lost.
Not anymore as I make it a routine and is not an interupt.
Granted, finding an issue turns into a new ticket event. So that is always an interupt. But no different than any new incoming ticket.
lol, of course. - oh and it's more billing.. and it's likely proactive.. so even better for the customer!
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@mike-davis said in pricing on websites:
The second one says he really doesn't know how long it's going to take, but to trust him that he won't overbill me and he's going to do the best job he can. He tells me that if I pay for hours up front I'll get a better rate, but he can't really tell me how many hours he anticipates using.
This is called "time and materials" and is very common for most contractors and construction projects.
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@coliver said in pricing on websites:
@mike-davis said in pricing on websites:
The second one says he really doesn't know how long it's going to take, but to trust him that he won't overbill me and he's going to do the best job he can. He tells me that if I pay for hours up front I'll get a better rate, but he can't really tell me how many hours he anticipates using.
This is called "time and materials" and is very common for most contractors and construction projects.
And a fairly accurate estimate of hours is always given. Otherwise the company would go out of business for lack of clients.
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@jaredbusch said in pricing on websites:
@coliver said in pricing on websites:
@mike-davis said in pricing on websites:
The second one says he really doesn't know how long it's going to take, but to trust him that he won't overbill me and he's going to do the best job he can. He tells me that if I pay for hours up front I'll get a better rate, but he can't really tell me how many hours he anticipates using.
This is called "time and materials" and is very common for most contractors and construction projects.
And a fairly accurate estimate of hours is always given. Otherwise the company would go out of business for lack of clients.
Yes, or the project is understood to be "until complete" and that unforeseen costs may come up.
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@coliver said in pricing on websites:
@mike-davis said in pricing on websites:
The second one says he really doesn't know how long it's going to take, but to trust him that he won't overbill me and he's going to do the best job he can. He tells me that if I pay for hours up front I'll get a better rate, but he can't really tell me how many hours he anticipates using.
This is called "time and materials" and is very common for most contractors and construction projects.
So is bidding on jobs...
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@mike-davis said in pricing on websites:
@coliver said in pricing on websites:
@mike-davis said in pricing on websites:
The second one says he really doesn't know how long it's going to take, but to trust him that he won't overbill me and he's going to do the best job he can. He tells me that if I pay for hours up front I'll get a better rate, but he can't really tell me how many hours he anticipates using.
This is called "time and materials" and is very common for most contractors and construction projects.
So is bidding on jobs...
WTF is that supposed to mean. That has no appropriate context.
It is all bidding a job. The point is how you are bidding it. I mean seriously WTF is your issue here. You have yet to respond intelligently to anything.
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@mike-davis said in pricing on websites:
@coliver said in pricing on websites:
@mike-davis said in pricing on websites:
The second one says he really doesn't know how long it's going to take, but to trust him that he won't overbill me and he's going to do the best job he can. He tells me that if I pay for hours up front I'll get a better rate, but he can't really tell me how many hours he anticipates using.
This is called "time and materials" and is very common for most contractors and construction projects.
So is bidding on jobs...
Yep not saying they aren't both common. Just saying that neither is a crazy way of doing business and they both have their place in the construction industry. But as @scottalanmiller said that doesn't necessarily translate well to the technical industry.
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@mike-davis said in pricing on websites:
@coliver said in pricing on websites:
@mike-davis said in pricing on websites:
The second one says he really doesn't know how long it's going to take, but to trust him that he won't overbill me and he's going to do the best job he can. He tells me that if I pay for hours up front I'll get a better rate, but he can't really tell me how many hours he anticipates using.
This is called "time and materials" and is very common for most contractors and construction projects.
So is bidding on jobs...
Sure, but bidding on jobs at a flat rate means the seller needs to build in fluff time or risk loosing a ton of money (paying employees to work where there are problems, where the client isn't paying them for that work, because it wasn't part of the flat rate consideration).
