Thoughts on how I could improve my network security?
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@dashrender said in Thoughts on how I could improve my network security?:
I'll correct myself.
You're right - Those are VARs.. SMBs don't know the difference between a VAR and an ITSP, and frankly, most don't want an ITSP, they want someone to handle it from soup to nuts.
Because SMB management aren't good at adulting therefore that's an excuse for them to be bad at adulting?
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@dashrender said in Thoughts on how I could improve my network security?:
I'll correct myself.
You're right - Those are VARs.. SMBs don't know the difference between a VAR and an ITSP
Every functional adult knows the difference. Please don't mock business people to this degree. It's so insulting. Of course they know. That they don't care is another matter.
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@dashrender said in Thoughts on how I could improve my network security?:
...and frankly, most don't want an ITSP, they want someone to handle it from soup to nuts.
This is the actual issue. The want to outsource their own business decision making. Which is fine, but is bad practice and as I say in every one of these discussions, you can never use one mistake in bad decision making to justify intentionally making bad decisions.
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@coliver said in Thoughts on how I could improve my network security?:
@dashrender said in Thoughts on how I could improve my network security?:
I'll correct myself.
You're right - Those are VARs.. SMBs don't know the difference between a VAR and an ITSP, and frankly, most don't want an ITSP, they want someone to handle it from soup to nuts.
Because SMB management aren't good at adulting therefore that's an excuse for them to be bad at adulting?
Of course not, but that doesn't make it any less the reality of the situation.
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@coliver said in Thoughts on how I could improve my network security?:
@dashrender said in Thoughts on how I could improve my network security?:
I'll correct myself.
You're right - Those are VARs.. SMBs don't know the difference between a VAR and an ITSP, and frankly, most don't want an ITSP, they want someone to handle it from soup to nuts.
Which an ITSP would do. They just wouldn't sell or get a benefit to suggesting a product.
Exactly. ITSP are soup to nuts, VAR are not. ITSP is your partner for your needs, the VAR is your enemy.
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@dashrender said in Thoughts on how I could improve my network security?:
@coliver said in Thoughts on how I could improve my network security?:
@dashrender said in Thoughts on how I could improve my network security?:
I'll correct myself.
You're right - Those are VARs.. SMBs don't know the difference between a VAR and an ITSP, and frankly, most don't want an ITSP, they want someone to handle it from soup to nuts.
Because SMB management aren't good at adulting therefore that's an excuse for them to be bad at adulting?
Of course not, but that doesn't make it any less the reality of the situation.
And, like every conversation like this, what does this have to do with the price of milk? This is a red herring. Why do you bring this up as if it justifies giving bad advice?
Don't tell people to wear seatbelts, because in reality many people won't.
Really?
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@dashrender said in Thoughts on how I could improve my network security?:
@coliver said in Thoughts on how I could improve my network security?:
@dashrender said in Thoughts on how I could improve my network security?:
I'll correct myself.
You're right - Those are VARs.. SMBs don't know the difference between a VAR and an ITSP, and frankly, most don't want an ITSP, they want someone to handle it from soup to nuts.
Because SMB management aren't good at adulting therefore that's an excuse for them to be bad at adulting?
Of course not, but that doesn't make it any less the reality of the situation.
Not arguing that point... that still doesn't make UTMs a good idea for most businesses.
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@coliver said in Thoughts on how I could improve my network security?:
@dashrender said in Thoughts on how I could improve my network security?:
I'll correct myself.
You're right - Those are VARs.. SMBs don't know the difference between a VAR and an ITSP, and frankly, most don't want an ITSP, they want someone to handle it from soup to nuts.
Because SMB management aren't good at adulting therefore that's an excuse for them to be bad at adulting?
It's that they rarely care about adulting, as society makes it so acceptable to just fail.
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@coliver said in Thoughts on how I could improve my network security?:
@dashrender said in Thoughts on how I could improve my network security?:
@coliver said in Thoughts on how I could improve my network security?:
@dashrender said in Thoughts on how I could improve my network security?:
I'll correct myself.
You're right - Those are VARs.. SMBs don't know the difference between a VAR and an ITSP, and frankly, most don't want an ITSP, they want someone to handle it from soup to nuts.
Because SMB management aren't good at adulting therefore that's an excuse for them to be bad at adulting?
Of course not, but that doesn't make it any less the reality of the situation.
Not arguing that point... that still doesn't make UTMs a good idea for most businesses.
Right, that bad decision makers make bad decisions is not in question. That has no bearing on what a good decision would be.
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It's like saying that Person X always answers "5". Then asking what 2 + 7 is. But saying that the answer isn't nine because Person X doesn't do math.
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A lot of places will have SonicWALLs who haven't gotten it through an ITSP. Upper management made the decision to get a SonicWALL through their own research. And that's the way it is, in the real world. Not in Scott's world, but the real world. It happens like that in so many places it's actually odd to me that you haven't seen it happen. Perhaps you've only ever delt with F500s and that's how it is for them.
Then eventually, IT staff comes on board who does know that SoincWALLs and UTMs shouldn't be used in those cases, but they are already there and nobody wants to spend the money to do it better. This is often the case, adn is what Dash was referring to I think.
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@coliver said in Thoughts on how I could improve my network security?:
@dashrender said in Thoughts on how I could improve my network security?:
@coliver said in Thoughts on how I could improve my network security?:
@dashrender said in Thoughts on how I could improve my network security?:
I'll correct myself.
You're right - Those are VARs.. SMBs don't know the difference between a VAR and an ITSP, and frankly, most don't want an ITSP, they want someone to handle it from soup to nuts.
Because SMB management aren't good at adulting therefore that's an excuse for them to be bad at adulting?
Of course not, but that doesn't make it any less the reality of the situation.
Not arguing that point... that still doesn't make UTMs a good idea for most businesses.
I never said it was.
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@dashrender said in Thoughts on how I could improve my network security?:
@coliver said in Thoughts on how I could improve my network security?:
@dashrender said in Thoughts on how I could improve my network security?:
@coliver said in Thoughts on how I could improve my network security?:
@dashrender said in Thoughts on how I could improve my network security?:
I'll correct myself.
You're right - Those are VARs.. SMBs don't know the difference between a VAR and an ITSP, and frankly, most don't want an ITSP, they want someone to handle it from soup to nuts.
Because SMB management aren't good at adulting therefore that's an excuse for them to be bad at adulting?
Of course not, but that doesn't make it any less the reality of the situation.
Not arguing that point... that still doesn't make UTMs a good idea for most businesses.
I never said it was.
No, but you present "but most people won't do this" as if it means something in reference to the decision process. Why mention this otherwise?
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@tim_g said in Thoughts on how I could improve my network security?:
A lot of places will have SonicWALLs who haven't gotten it through an ITSP. Upper management made the decision to get a SonicWALL through their own research. And that's the way it is, in the real world. Not in Scott's world, but the real world.
Where Scott's world = "good business".
Scott never, ever suggested businesses made good decisions. Scott teaches how to make good decisions. Don't equate Scott's ideas of "what good looks like" with a misconception that I think the normal world looks good. The average business is idiotic and fails in under five years. "Normal" means abject failure in business.
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@tim_g said in Thoughts on how I could improve my network security?:
A lot of places will have SonicWALLs who haven't gotten it through an ITSP. Upper management made the decision to get a SonicWALL through their own research. And that's the way it is, in the real world. Not in Scott's world, but the real world. It happens like that in so many places it's actually odd to me that you haven't seen it happen. Perhaps you've only ever delt with F500s and that's how it is for them.
Then eventually, IT staff comes on board who does know that SoincWALLs and UTMs shouldn't be used in those cases, but they are already there and nobody wants to spend the money to do it better. This is often the case, adn is what Dash was referring to I think.
This is the Cisco arguement. Upper management sees Cisco advertisements during the a football game. That's the extent of their research.
If the case is upper management made the decision and you've made the case as to why that's not the best decision in this situation. Then you did what you could. "Not my Monkey, not my Circus."
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@tim_g said in Thoughts on how I could improve my network security?:
Perhaps you've only ever delt with F500s and that's how it is for them.
I deal with every business type of every size. But it would be odd for someone to hire me without any intention of trying to do IT well. Just doesn't make sense. So of course, I see only the top crust of any market. ITSPs, practically by defition, never see bad companies or even average. Only VARs see those.
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@coliver said in Thoughts on how I could improve my network security?:
@tim_g said in Thoughts on how I could improve my network security?:
A lot of places will have SonicWALLs who haven't gotten it through an ITSP. Upper management made the decision to get a SonicWALL through their own research. And that's the way it is, in the real world. Not in Scott's world, but the real world. It happens like that in so many places it's actually odd to me that you haven't seen it happen. Perhaps you've only ever delt with F500s and that's how it is for them.
Then eventually, IT staff comes on board who does know that SoincWALLs and UTMs shouldn't be used in those cases, but they are already there and nobody wants to spend the money to do it better. This is often the case, adn is what Dash was referring to I think.
This is the Cisco arguement. Upper management sees Cisco advertisements during the a football game. That's the extent of their research.
If the case is upper management made the decision and you've made the case as to why that's not the best decision in this situation. Then you did what you could. "Not my Monkey, not my Circus."
Right, it's just a good way to figure out which vendors prey on foolish managers and which managers think that no one will notice them not doing their jobs.
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@tim_g said in Thoughts on how I could improve my network security?:
A lot of places will have SonicWALLs who haven't gotten it through an ITSP. Upper management made the decision to get a SonicWALL through their own research. And that's the way it is, in the real world. Not in Scott's world, but the real world. It happens like that in so many places it's actually odd to me that you haven't seen it happen. Perhaps you've only ever delt with F500s and that's how it is for them.
Then eventually, IT staff comes on board who does know that SoincWALLs and UTMs shouldn't be used in those cases, but they are already there and nobody wants to spend the money to do it better. This is often the case, adn is what Dash was referring to I think.
That's part of it.
Apparrently I want to insult most adults by saying they can't or don't adult - i.e. don't know the difference between VAR and ITSP, but so few people actually put any thought into it.
This makes me think that there is a hugely untapped market for ITSP like services to the common man. Find a way to siphon 50% of the wasted money that people spend by getting people better options when they are buying stuff.
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@tim_g said in Thoughts on how I could improve my network security?:
Then eventually, IT staff comes on board who does know that SoincWALLs and UTMs shouldn't be used in those cases, but they are already there and nobody wants to spend the money to do it better. This is often the case, adn is what Dash was referring to I think.
He might be referring to the case, but why refer to it? What's the relevance? No one was questioning the process by which bad companies do bad things. Only pointing out how good decisions get made and what they would look like.
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@coliver said in Thoughts on how I could improve my network security?:
@tim_g said in Thoughts on how I could improve my network security?:
A lot of places will have SonicWALLs who haven't gotten it through an ITSP. Upper management made the decision to get a SonicWALL through their own research. And that's the way it is, in the real world. Not in Scott's world, but the real world. It happens like that in so many places it's actually odd to me that you haven't seen it happen. Perhaps you've only ever delt with F500s and that's how it is for them.
Then eventually, IT staff comes on board who does know that SoincWALLs and UTMs shouldn't be used in those cases, but they are already there and nobody wants to spend the money to do it better. This is often the case, adn is what Dash was referring to I think.
This is the Cisco arguement. Upper management sees Cisco advertisements during the a football game. That's the extent of their research.
If the case is upper management made the decision and you've made the case as to why that's not the best decision in this situation. Then you did what you could. "Not my Monkey, not my Circus."
Notice I didn't say a bad decision, no one is criticizing or saying the solution won't work.
