Is Most IT Really Corrupt?
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@scottalanmiller said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
@DustinB3403 said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
The issue is see most often is people refusing to think what they've done / allowed / purchased / recommended is in any way bad for the business, because the business is functional.
They don't see that spending more for a solution, when 15 minutes of conversation could've easily saved thousands isn't corruption. But a screw up.
If this somehow happened "on accident" I'd agree it was a screw up. If the person tasked with doing this either avoided it because they couldn't be bothered to do their job knowing that they'd not likely get caught since how do you prove someone didn't think about it; or doesn't do it because they know that they don't know how, that's corruption to me.
Corruption and incompetence can have a fine line though. I tend to think most of these cases are born out of incompetence, not corruption.
Thus they shouldn't be doing the job.
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@msff-amman-Itofficer said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
hmm, not sure if I agree with you on this one (But I don't have vast experience on being manager or supervisor), while some aspects are true especially this one:
Taking kick backs from salespeople in order to ensure a sale
It does not happen like that, you just get better treatment from the sales personnel maybe discount for personal purchases, but that's it.Oh no, people can get houses and cars out of this. Not in the SMB, but this is huge. What percentage of people do this, I don't know. That it happens is certain.
But personal discounts, that is a direct kick back. It's money in their pocket that they didn't have before. Whether it is free meals, expensed trips, golf club memberships or a new house... these kickbacks really do happen and they exist for one reason... to bribe someone to sell out the company.
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@msff-amman-Itofficer said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
Especially since if you bought garbage I.T equipment and it fails, you will be the first to blame .
I guess management does not always realize how much resources does an I.T admin/super/manager has, and he should be properly paid with good salary, and pass the internal HR trust as well as the managers.
But does this change anything? Would paying more make people have critical thinking? If so, where are these critical thinkers hiding? What work are they doing that paying better would make them appear in IT?
I'm sure some are running their own businesses, some are managing hotels... but by and large, does raising the pay change the pool of talent? We are not talking about an individual business, but the entire field.
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I think a point that is being made here, and one that was made to me offline, is that companies treat IT as unimportant, don't audit it, don't check into it and don't care what it does... so they pay badly, and are then stuck with people who can't do the job. I totally agree. Management has to be enabling corruption. But I don't think that that changes the corruption, only explains why it must happen. We don't pay enough for anyone to accept the jobs unless they are making money in some other way from the deal. So it is going to be expected. That makes sense.
But no one has to work in IT. It's just that management practically engineers a corruption scenario. I'm 100% on board with that logic. But I think it supports, rather than disagrees, with my hypothesis and observations.
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@scottalanmiller said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
ir own businesses, some are managing hotels... but by and large, does raising the pay change the pool of talent? We are not talking about an individual business, but the entire field.
Well for starts having I.T helper can make documentation is easier and after I worked on project with ThoughtWorks, they pair up as driver technique, and 2 sit on one machine, 1 develops and the other helps to understand and document.
Documentation fights corruption cause it removes you out of the dark. and if I left the company I cant leave them hostage cause they have the docs which will allow another person to follow and understand.
Maybe I am not being subjective, but the thing what I am basically saying is the current model in SMB to hire 1 I.T person to deal with:
User issues and I.T Support
Handling of servers in the best way
And Printers of course
And add more responsibilities like developing new tools and solutions to help the org (XMPP Chat/NextCloud/osTicket/SaltStack/Intranet site/...etc)Is not the best way to go if they genuinely care about I.T continuous improvement.
AND I NEED RAISE PEOPLE
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I would tend to say because of the lack of oversight and review that IT personal become lax, and start to do things in such a way that makes "their lives easier" which in turn results in some sort of corruption issue.
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@msff-amman-Itofficer said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
@scottalanmiller said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
ir own businesses, some are managing hotels... but by and large, does raising the pay change the pool of talent? We are not talking about an individual business, but the entire field.
Well for starts having I.T helper can make documentation is easier and after I worked on project with ThoughtWorks, they pair up as driver technique, and 2 sit on one machine, 1 develops and the other helps to understand and document.
Documentation fights corruption cause it removes you out of the dark. and if I left the company I cant leave them hostage cause they have the docs which will allow another person to follow and understand.
Outside documentation or review would provide this.
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@DustinB3403 said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
I would tend to say because of the lack of oversight and review that IT personal become lax, and start to do things in such a way that makes "their lives easier" which in turn results in some sort of corruption issue.
That's a very real thing. How many departments have so much opportunity to no longer do their jobs and have no one notice?
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@DustinB3403 said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
@msff-amman-Itofficer said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
@scottalanmiller said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
ir own businesses, some are managing hotels... but by and large, does raising the pay change the pool of talent? We are not talking about an individual business, but the entire field.
Well for starts having I.T helper can make documentation is easier and after I worked on project with ThoughtWorks, they pair up as driver technique, and 2 sit on one machine, 1 develops and the other helps to understand and document.
Documentation fights corruption cause it removes you out of the dark. and if I left the company I cant leave them hostage cause they have the docs which will allow another person to follow and understand.
Outside documentation or review would provide this.
Or would at least help. Good auditing and oversight can go a long way.
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IT does give you the ability to commit crimes with much less of a chance of being caught. If I go to the local walmart and hold a gun to somebody's head and rob them for $23.45, the police will be called and a somewhat large effort will be put together to find me. On the other hand, if I do some online phishing and completely hide my identity and steal let's say $3,000. It's likely that no effort will be put in to track me down.
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Yh like someone will understand the mess that I create besides me.
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@scottalanmiller said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
How many departments have so much opportunity to no longer do their jobs and have no one notice?
I'm sure there is enough opportunity to cause this to be common place, which is why it's seen so often.
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@IRJ said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
IT does give you the ability to commit crimes with much less of a chance of being caught. If I go to the local walmart and hold a gun to somebody's head and rob them for $23.45, the police will be called and a somewhat large effort will be put together to find me. On the other hand, if I do some online phishing and completely hide my identity and steal let's say $3,000. It's likely that no effort will be put in to track me down.
And that's not IT, just white collar crime vs. blue collar. IT takes it to a whole new level where even the people being stolen from generally cannot identify that theft has happened.
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@scottalanmiller said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
@IRJ said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
IT does give you the ability to commit crimes with much less of a chance of being caught. If I go to the local walmart and hold a gun to somebody's head and rob them for $23.45, the police will be called and a somewhat large effort will be put together to find me. On the other hand, if I do some online phishing and completely hide my identity and steal let's say $3,000. It's likely that no effort will be put in to track me down.
And that's not IT, just white collar crime vs. blue collar. IT takes it to a whole new level where even the people being stolen from generally cannot identify that theft has happened.
You must know IT on order to be successful.
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@DustinB3403 said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
@scottalanmiller said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
How many departments have so much opportunity to no longer do their jobs and have no one notice?
I'm sure there is enough opportunity to cause this to be common place, which is why it's seen so often.
Hard to want to keep doing the job you are paid to do if the management can't tell when you've stopped. And even if you cause the company to go out of business, the chances that you will still be around and/or that they can identify you as the problem are so low that it is a good risk to take if you are less than ethical.
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@scottalanmiller said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
@IRJ said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
IT does give you the ability to commit crimes with much less of a chance of being caught. If I go to the local walmart and hold a gun to somebody's head and rob them for $23.45, the police will be called and a somewhat large effort will be put together to find me. On the other hand, if I do some online phishing and completely hide my identity and steal let's say $3,000. It's likely that no effort will be put in to track me down.
And that's not IT, just white collar crime vs. blue collar. IT takes it to a whole new level where even the people being stolen from generally cannot identify that theft has happened.
I would rephrase that, because if you notice that something is amiss then it wasn't a perfect crime.
"And that's not IT, just white collar crime vs. blue collar. IT takes it to a whole new level where even the people being stolen from generally cannot identify who performed the crime."
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@IRJ said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
@scottalanmiller said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
@IRJ said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
IT does give you the ability to commit crimes with much less of a chance of being caught. If I go to the local walmart and hold a gun to somebody's head and rob them for $23.45, the police will be called and a somewhat large effort will be put together to find me. On the other hand, if I do some online phishing and completely hide my identity and steal let's say $3,000. It's likely that no effort will be put in to track me down.
And that's not IT, just white collar crime vs. blue collar. IT takes it to a whole new level where even the people being stolen from generally cannot identify that theft has happened.
You must know IT on order to be successful.
Not for phishing. Not for a lot of things. You can do that via paper.
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The things you listen are not necessarily because of IT. Other professions could do this to a business as well. This is just a moral issue related to the person not the profession. Because IT can make this easy to do, it attracts that type of person.
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@PenguinWrangler said in Is Most IT Really Corrupt?:
The things you listen are not necessarily because of IT. Other professions could do this to a business as well. This is just a moral issue related to the person not the profession. Because IT can make this easy to do, it attracts that type of person.
Absolutely, 100% agree. But IT I think has loads more opportunity for this... much because IT has access to things and because IT is too confusing for most businesses to oversee and they just hope for the best, which makes a market ripe to be taken advantage of and attracts people interested in taking advantage of it.
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Worth noting, in case it is not clear, that a ton of the corruption that I see doesn't come from the people labelled as IT, but the people who are the actual IT decision makes, often people with other titles higher up the organizational ladder who are actually running IT, but not taking the blame or being overseen properly.
