Ubuntu switching back to GNOME
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I really liked Unity instead... but tbh I was not really sure about the wayland/mir stuff. For sure this is the n-th project shut down by Canonical... are they still healthy?!
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@matteo-nunziati said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
I really liked Unity instead... but tbh I was not really sure about the wayland/mir stuff. For sure this is the n-th project shut down by Canonical... are they still healthy?!
I'd say they'll be fine... Phoronix news has community people continuing development on. The ideas behind Unity were tried by many companies, Microsoft's Windows 8 being the other major one that comes to mind. I don't know of any that successfully merged tablet and desktop interfaces into one.
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to me that was great, a nice way to make a smartphone something more than a facebook client.
from a high level perspective only the final layer of the graphic stack should be dynamically adjusted after evevents.- hey a bigger monitor has been attached
- notify with evevent
- let the xserver (or anything similar) adjust devices
- let qt/gtk redraw the interface bigger
to me convergence is probably more of a marketing / technology issue rathar then a GUI issue. there should be the tools for GUIS, I don't know if there are the apps the computational power and or the sotrage solutions for this.
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@matteo-nunziati said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
I really liked Unity instead... but tbh I was not really sure about the wayland/mir stuff. For sure this is the n-th project shut down by Canonical... are they still healthy?!
Actually, this is a good business sign. Pulling back on dead end projects so that they can focus on important ones. Unity, like it or not, wasn't helping the ecosystem and was draining funds from Canonical for no reason.
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@matteo-nunziati said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
to me that was great, a nice way to make a smartphone something more than a facebook client.
from a high level perspective only the final layer of the graphic stack should be dynamically adjusted after evevents.- hey a bigger monitor has been attached
- notify with evevent
- let the xserver (or anything similar) adjust devices
- let qt/gtk redraw the interface bigger
to me convergence is probably more of a marketing / technology issue rathar then a GUI issue. there should be the tools for GUIS, I don't know if there are the apps the computational power and or the sotrage solutions for this.
it's not about size, it's about presenting a different interface to the end user.
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@scottalanmiller said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
@matteo-nunziati said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
to me that was great, a nice way to make a smartphone something more than a facebook client.
from a high level perspective only the final layer of the graphic stack should be dynamically adjusted after evevents.- hey a bigger monitor has been attached
- notify with evevent
- let the xserver (or anything similar) adjust devices
- let qt/gtk redraw the interface bigger
to me convergence is probably more of a marketing / technology issue rathar then a GUI issue. there should be the tools for GUIS, I don't know if there are the apps the computational power and or the sotrage solutions for this.
it's not about size, it's about presenting a different interface to the end user.
yes. but the gui is just the last layer of the graphical stack. hell you can even code in html nowdays. even my small apps can change aspect with monitor change... and I'm just dumb at this. I've done totally dynamic apps in qt in the past, with properly different presentation layers in them. it was not for hotplug but for same codebase on different devices. still what a single dev can do in a small office is just a neglectable part of what a software house can do.
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@matteo-nunziati said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
@scottalanmiller said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
@matteo-nunziati said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
to me that was great, a nice way to make a smartphone something more than a facebook client.
from a high level perspective only the final layer of the graphic stack should be dynamically adjusted after evevents.- hey a bigger monitor has been attached
- notify with evevent
- let the xserver (or anything similar) adjust devices
- let qt/gtk redraw the interface bigger
to me convergence is probably more of a marketing / technology issue rathar then a GUI issue. there should be the tools for GUIS, I don't know if there are the apps the computational power and or the sotrage solutions for this.
it's not about size, it's about presenting a different interface to the end user.
yes. but the gui is just the last layer of the graphical stack. hell you can even code in html nowdays. even my small apps can change aspect with monitor change... and I'm just dumb at this. I've done totally dynamic apps in qt in the past, with properly different presentation layers in them. it was not for hotplug but for same codebase on different devices. still what a single dev can do in a small office is just a neglectable part of what a software house can do.
Yeah, even I can setup and app to use those pre-defined CSS layout engines that resize content according to what screen it's on, and it's been something like 8 years now since I did any sort of programming besides scripting.
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@matteo-nunziati said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
@scottalanmiller said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
@matteo-nunziati said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
to me that was great, a nice way to make a smartphone something more than a facebook client.
from a high level perspective only the final layer of the graphic stack should be dynamically adjusted after evevents.- hey a bigger monitor has been attached
- notify with evevent
- let the xserver (or anything similar) adjust devices
- let qt/gtk redraw the interface bigger
to me convergence is probably more of a marketing / technology issue rathar then a GUI issue. there should be the tools for GUIS, I don't know if there are the apps the computational power and or the sotrage solutions for this.
it's not about size, it's about presenting a different interface to the end user.
yes. but the gui is just the last layer of the graphical stack. hell you can even code in html nowdays. even my small apps can change aspect with monitor change... and I'm just dumb at this. I've done totally dynamic apps in qt in the past, with properly different presentation layers in them. it was not for hotplug but for same codebase on different devices. still what a single dev can do in a small office is just a neglectable part of what a software house can do.
GNOME 3 uses CSS to display with, so ya it shouldn't be an issue to create interfaces for different sizes.
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@matteo-nunziati said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
@scottalanmiller said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
@matteo-nunziati said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
to me that was great, a nice way to make a smartphone something more than a facebook client.
from a high level perspective only the final layer of the graphic stack should be dynamically adjusted after evevents.- hey a bigger monitor has been attached
- notify with evevent
- let the xserver (or anything similar) adjust devices
- let qt/gtk redraw the interface bigger
to me convergence is probably more of a marketing / technology issue rathar then a GUI issue. there should be the tools for GUIS, I don't know if there are the apps the computational power and or the sotrage solutions for this.
it's not about size, it's about presenting a different interface to the end user.
yes. but the gui is just the last layer of the graphical stack. hell you can even code in html nowdays. even my small apps can change aspect with monitor change... and I'm just dumb at this. I've done totally dynamic apps in qt in the past, with properly different presentation layers in them. it was not for hotplug but for same codebase on different devices. still what a single dev can do in a small office is just a neglectable part of what a software house can do.
Right, but my point was that size doesn't matter. The interfaces already change size without any problem. That's not the issue.
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@stacksofplates said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
@matteo-nunziati said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
@scottalanmiller said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
@matteo-nunziati said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
to me that was great, a nice way to make a smartphone something more than a facebook client.
from a high level perspective only the final layer of the graphic stack should be dynamically adjusted after evevents.- hey a bigger monitor has been attached
- notify with evevent
- let the xserver (or anything similar) adjust devices
- let qt/gtk redraw the interface bigger
to me convergence is probably more of a marketing / technology issue rathar then a GUI issue. there should be the tools for GUIS, I don't know if there are the apps the computational power and or the sotrage solutions for this.
it's not about size, it's about presenting a different interface to the end user.
yes. but the gui is just the last layer of the graphical stack. hell you can even code in html nowdays. even my small apps can change aspect with monitor change... and I'm just dumb at this. I've done totally dynamic apps in qt in the past, with properly different presentation layers in them. it was not for hotplug but for same codebase on different devices. still what a single dev can do in a small office is just a neglectable part of what a software house can do.
GNOME 3 uses CSS to display with, so ya it shouldn't be an issue to create interfaces for different sizes.
That's what I said... the issue is different interfaces, not different sizes.
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@scottalanmiller said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
@stacksofplates said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
@matteo-nunziati said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
@scottalanmiller said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
@matteo-nunziati said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
to me that was great, a nice way to make a smartphone something more than a facebook client.
from a high level perspective only the final layer of the graphic stack should be dynamically adjusted after evevents.- hey a bigger monitor has been attached
- notify with evevent
- let the xserver (or anything similar) adjust devices
- let qt/gtk redraw the interface bigger
to me convergence is probably more of a marketing / technology issue rathar then a GUI issue. there should be the tools for GUIS, I don't know if there are the apps the computational power and or the sotrage solutions for this.
it's not about size, it's about presenting a different interface to the end user.
yes. but the gui is just the last layer of the graphical stack. hell you can even code in html nowdays. even my small apps can change aspect with monitor change... and I'm just dumb at this. I've done totally dynamic apps in qt in the past, with properly different presentation layers in them. it was not for hotplug but for same codebase on different devices. still what a single dev can do in a small office is just a neglectable part of what a software house can do.
GNOME 3 uses CSS to display with, so ya it shouldn't be an issue to create interfaces for different sizes.
That's what I said... the issue is different interfaces, not different sizes.
Right, but size can affect interface. Just like responsive sites offer a different interface per size.
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@stacksofplates said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
@scottalanmiller said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
@stacksofplates said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
@matteo-nunziati said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
@scottalanmiller said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
@matteo-nunziati said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
to me that was great, a nice way to make a smartphone something more than a facebook client.
from a high level perspective only the final layer of the graphic stack should be dynamically adjusted after evevents.- hey a bigger monitor has been attached
- notify with evevent
- let the xserver (or anything similar) adjust devices
- let qt/gtk redraw the interface bigger
to me convergence is probably more of a marketing / technology issue rathar then a GUI issue. there should be the tools for GUIS, I don't know if there are the apps the computational power and or the sotrage solutions for this.
it's not about size, it's about presenting a different interface to the end user.
yes. but the gui is just the last layer of the graphical stack. hell you can even code in html nowdays. even my small apps can change aspect with monitor change... and I'm just dumb at this. I've done totally dynamic apps in qt in the past, with properly different presentation layers in them. it was not for hotplug but for same codebase on different devices. still what a single dev can do in a small office is just a neglectable part of what a software house can do.
GNOME 3 uses CSS to display with, so ya it shouldn't be an issue to create interfaces for different sizes.
That's what I said... the issue is different interfaces, not different sizes.
Right, but size can affect interface. Just like responsive sites offer a different interface per size.
But that would be HORRIBLE. You don't want some tablets going to a mouse interface because they have a high resolution or small monitors going to touch screen just because they are small. That would be a disaster.
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@scottalanmiller said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
@stacksofplates said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
@scottalanmiller said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
@stacksofplates said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
@matteo-nunziati said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
@scottalanmiller said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
@matteo-nunziati said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
to me that was great, a nice way to make a smartphone something more than a facebook client.
from a high level perspective only the final layer of the graphic stack should be dynamically adjusted after evevents.- hey a bigger monitor has been attached
- notify with evevent
- let the xserver (or anything similar) adjust devices
- let qt/gtk redraw the interface bigger
to me convergence is probably more of a marketing / technology issue rathar then a GUI issue. there should be the tools for GUIS, I don't know if there are the apps the computational power and or the sotrage solutions for this.
it's not about size, it's about presenting a different interface to the end user.
yes. but the gui is just the last layer of the graphical stack. hell you can even code in html nowdays. even my small apps can change aspect with monitor change... and I'm just dumb at this. I've done totally dynamic apps in qt in the past, with properly different presentation layers in them. it was not for hotplug but for same codebase on different devices. still what a single dev can do in a small office is just a neglectable part of what a software house can do.
GNOME 3 uses CSS to display with, so ya it shouldn't be an issue to create interfaces for different sizes.
That's what I said... the issue is different interfaces, not different sizes.
Right, but size can affect interface. Just like responsive sites offer a different interface per size.
But that would be HORRIBLE. You don't want some tablets going to a mouse interface because they have a high resolution or small monitors going to touch screen just because they are small. That would be a disaster.
It wouldn't have to. Size can be one factor. It doesn't work that way with websites now, why would it have to work that way with a DE?
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@stacksofplates said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
@scottalanmiller said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
@stacksofplates said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
@scottalanmiller said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
@stacksofplates said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
@matteo-nunziati said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
@scottalanmiller said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
@matteo-nunziati said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
to me that was great, a nice way to make a smartphone something more than a facebook client.
from a high level perspective only the final layer of the graphic stack should be dynamically adjusted after evevents.- hey a bigger monitor has been attached
- notify with evevent
- let the xserver (or anything similar) adjust devices
- let qt/gtk redraw the interface bigger
to me convergence is probably more of a marketing / technology issue rathar then a GUI issue. there should be the tools for GUIS, I don't know if there are the apps the computational power and or the sotrage solutions for this.
it's not about size, it's about presenting a different interface to the end user.
yes. but the gui is just the last layer of the graphical stack. hell you can even code in html nowdays. even my small apps can change aspect with monitor change... and I'm just dumb at this. I've done totally dynamic apps in qt in the past, with properly different presentation layers in them. it was not for hotplug but for same codebase on different devices. still what a single dev can do in a small office is just a neglectable part of what a software house can do.
GNOME 3 uses CSS to display with, so ya it shouldn't be an issue to create interfaces for different sizes.
That's what I said... the issue is different interfaces, not different sizes.
Right, but size can affect interface. Just like responsive sites offer a different interface per size.
But that would be HORRIBLE. You don't want some tablets going to a mouse interface because they have a high resolution or small monitors going to touch screen just because they are small. That would be a disaster.
It wouldn't have to. Size can be one factor. It doesn't work that way with websites now, why would it have to work that way with a DE?
Because that's literally the whole point of the discussion, isn't it? Sizing is specifically what we aren't talking about, that's handled already and not a factor. The thing about Unity is that they were trying to make a single interface for different INPUT devices, not different sizes.
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@scottalanmiller said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
@stacksofplates said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
@scottalanmiller said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
@stacksofplates said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
@scottalanmiller said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
@stacksofplates said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
@matteo-nunziati said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
@scottalanmiller said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
@matteo-nunziati said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
to me that was great, a nice way to make a smartphone something more than a facebook client.
from a high level perspective only the final layer of the graphic stack should be dynamically adjusted after evevents.- hey a bigger monitor has been attached
- notify with evevent
- let the xserver (or anything similar) adjust devices
- let qt/gtk redraw the interface bigger
to me convergence is probably more of a marketing / technology issue rathar then a GUI issue. there should be the tools for GUIS, I don't know if there are the apps the computational power and or the sotrage solutions for this.
it's not about size, it's about presenting a different interface to the end user.
yes. but the gui is just the last layer of the graphical stack. hell you can even code in html nowdays. even my small apps can change aspect with monitor change... and I'm just dumb at this. I've done totally dynamic apps in qt in the past, with properly different presentation layers in them. it was not for hotplug but for same codebase on different devices. still what a single dev can do in a small office is just a neglectable part of what a software house can do.
GNOME 3 uses CSS to display with, so ya it shouldn't be an issue to create interfaces for different sizes.
That's what I said... the issue is different interfaces, not different sizes.
Right, but size can affect interface. Just like responsive sites offer a different interface per size.
But that would be HORRIBLE. You don't want some tablets going to a mouse interface because they have a high resolution or small monitors going to touch screen just because they are small. That would be a disaster.
It wouldn't have to. Size can be one factor. It doesn't work that way with websites now, why would it have to work that way with a DE?
Because that's literally the whole point of the discussion, isn't it? Sizing is specifically what we aren't talking about, that's handled already and not a factor. The thing about Unity is that they were trying to make a single interface for different INPUT devices, not different sizes.
Originally, it was about size. Netbook remix was the first iteration of Unity. They also created a phone that ran Android which had the normal Android UI and chaged when plugged into an external monitor and the screen size changed. So looking at the history of their products, size was definitely a factor along with input devices. It also can't just be about input devices because nothing changed between touch screen and not. Scroll bars were still horribly tiny, window controls were still small, menu controls were small, etc. The only thing it really changed was adding the original netbook remix interface with a crappier GNOME 3 overlay type thing.
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@stacksofplates said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
@scottalanmiller said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
@stacksofplates said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
@scottalanmiller said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
@stacksofplates said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
@scottalanmiller said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
@stacksofplates said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
@matteo-nunziati said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
@scottalanmiller said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
@matteo-nunziati said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
to me that was great, a nice way to make a smartphone something more than a facebook client.
from a high level perspective only the final layer of the graphic stack should be dynamically adjusted after evevents.- hey a bigger monitor has been attached
- notify with evevent
- let the xserver (or anything similar) adjust devices
- let qt/gtk redraw the interface bigger
to me convergence is probably more of a marketing / technology issue rathar then a GUI issue. there should be the tools for GUIS, I don't know if there are the apps the computational power and or the sotrage solutions for this.
it's not about size, it's about presenting a different interface to the end user.
yes. but the gui is just the last layer of the graphical stack. hell you can even code in html nowdays. even my small apps can change aspect with monitor change... and I'm just dumb at this. I've done totally dynamic apps in qt in the past, with properly different presentation layers in them. it was not for hotplug but for same codebase on different devices. still what a single dev can do in a small office is just a neglectable part of what a software house can do.
GNOME 3 uses CSS to display with, so ya it shouldn't be an issue to create interfaces for different sizes.
That's what I said... the issue is different interfaces, not different sizes.
Right, but size can affect interface. Just like responsive sites offer a different interface per size.
But that would be HORRIBLE. You don't want some tablets going to a mouse interface because they have a high resolution or small monitors going to touch screen just because they are small. That would be a disaster.
It wouldn't have to. Size can be one factor. It doesn't work that way with websites now, why would it have to work that way with a DE?
Because that's literally the whole point of the discussion, isn't it? Sizing is specifically what we aren't talking about, that's handled already and not a factor. The thing about Unity is that they were trying to make a single interface for different INPUT devices, not different sizes.
Originally, it was about size. Netbook remix was the first iteration of Unity. They also created a phone that ran Android which had the normal Android UI and chaged when plugged into an external monitor and the screen size changed. So looking at the history of their products, size was definitely a factor along with input devices. It also can't just be about input devices because nothing changed between touch screen and not. Scroll bars were still horribly tiny, window controls were still small, menu controls were small, etc. The only thing it really changed was adding the original netbook remix interface with a crappier GNOME 3 overlay type thing.
I think that that just shows that they screwed it up. Every Linux desktop that I know of scales already. Unity had that as a foundation before starting.
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@scottalanmiller things like bootstrap are not only about size
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@matteo-nunziati said in Ubuntu switching back to GNOME:
@scottalanmiller things like bootstrap are not only about size
I'm specifically talking about the change between touch screen and keyboard/mouse input. Nothing else.
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@scottalanmiller things like bootstrap are all about mouse vs finger, pointer vs touch
