Moderators Denying Ability to Explain
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@scottalanmiller Good news indeed.
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@DenisKelley said in Moderators Denying Ability to Explain:
Can someone please remove my account. I'm not on here that much and the Mango vs SW stuff is tiring to me. I don't see any way to remove or deactivate my account, so mods, please either show me how or do it on my behalf. Thanks!
/Sighs
I like to think of it as being pro-SW that we care enough to try to help and not like the bad community moderators try to undermine the community. I've seen the bevy of threads about ML on SW, do you feel the same way about the posts in the other direction? If not, why does one come across as tiring and one not? And as this was not an ML vs SW post, what are you seeing?
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@Tim_G said in Moderators Denying Ability to Explain:
@scottalanmiller Good news indeed.
Yes, I'm hoping that an official policy statement gets made so that we have something to point to in the future rather than a more ambiguous "this isn't good moderation practice" soft of thing. I'm not aware of there being any official policy on it, at this time.
Which is a good time to mention that ML should have one of those for mods, as well. Even though there are not comm mods on ML, I think we'd all like to see a comprehensive mod policy here, too. It's a bit of a wild west situation, at the moment. Which isn't all bad, the wild west actually held up pretty well when the population was low. But as the west got bigger, the wild elements don't keep working.
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I feel like everyone needs to step back from the situation a bit to look at this with a cooler head.
It's completely unfair to attack all community mods because you disagree with the actions of a single one. Your mention that you felt personally attacked because a community moderator removed one of your posts, yet you lob tons of personal attacks at all of the other moderators because of it. It's completely hypocritical, and personally I am offended by being called out for being part of a group when I had zero to do with the situation.
If you had a problem with the actions of a single moderator, the adult thing to do would have been to 1) address it via PM with them, or 2) get a CM like Sean involved. Or even a third option, ask another moderator to step in - someone who isn't part of the situation and can look at it objectively. Instead, you posted not one, but two rant threads on two separate communities, and many of your comments on both were made to insult all moderators as a group.
Or, if you did still feel the need to create a post about it, it could have been done professionally without spewing personal attacks at an entire group when 99% of them had nothing to do with the situation.
I will not comment on the actions that prompted this reaction, as that is in the realm of the CMs to handle; my issue here is wholly with your response to this situation. It is not OK to lob personal attacks at others when you feel personally attacked by a single person.
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@Cyali said in Moderators Denying Ability to Explain:
It's completely unfair to attack all community mods because you disagree with the actions of a single one.
Well, three, to be exact. There were three comm mods involved in this case.
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@Cyali said in Moderators Denying Ability to Explain:
Your mention that you felt personally attacked because a community moderator removed one of your posts,
No, that's not what I stated. I stated that there was a misstatement made about what I said THEN when I corrected it, it was deleted. It went from mistake to cover up. That's when it became personal.
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But 3 out of like 75 or so. Again, I feel personally attacked by much of what you've said, as your words were meant to insult community moderators as a whole. And it's not cool.
And I find it hypocritical because the entire thing you're speaking out against is feeling personally targetted and attacked by a moderator.
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@Cyali said in Moderators Denying Ability to Explain:
yet you lob tons of personal attacks at all of the other moderators because of it. It's completely hypocritical, and personally I am offended by being called out for being part of a group when I had zero to do with the situation.
Are you aware of the reason that I am not a community moderator? If so, I don't think that you would make this statement. If not, you really should be aware of it.
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@Cyali said in Moderators Denying Ability to Explain:
If you had a problem with the actions of a single moderator, the adult thing to do would have been to 1) address it via PM with them,
I did before responding. I got told off.
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@Cyali said in Moderators Denying Ability to Explain:
- get a CM like Sean involved.
Did that too, but he was out of the office.
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@scottalanmiller said in Moderators Denying Ability to Explain:
@Cyali said in Moderators Denying Ability to Explain:
yet you lob tons of personal attacks at all of the other moderators because of it. It's completely hypocritical, and personally I am offended by being called out for being part of a group when I had zero to do with the situation.
Are you aware of the reason that I am not a community moderator? If so, I don't think that you would make this statement. If not, you really should be aware of it.
I think you're misreading what I said. You are lobbing personal attacks at all community moderators because of this situation. I am a community moderator, and feel personally offended that my character as a mod is being attacked because you disagree with the actions of a very small group of other mods.
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@Cyali said in Moderators Denying Ability to Explain:
Or even a third option, ask another moderator to step in - someone who isn't part of the situation and can look at it objectively.
Two did, and they ganged up on me. If three comm mods ganging up isn't enough for the other mods to automatically step in, what is? Why do I need to go through all of these steps and THEN have a fourth comm mod tell me all the things that I did wrong, when I did everything that was suggested?
Where were the 72 other mods that should have stepped in? Why is it my responsibility as a normal community member to have to go through all of these steps when there is an army of people with the responsibility of protecting me, rather than ganging up?
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@Cyali said in Moderators Denying Ability to Explain:
@scottalanmiller said in Moderators Denying Ability to Explain:
@Cyali said in Moderators Denying Ability to Explain:
yet you lob tons of personal attacks at all of the other moderators because of it. It's completely hypocritical, and personally I am offended by being called out for being part of a group when I had zero to do with the situation.
Are you aware of the reason that I am not a community moderator? If so, I don't think that you would make this statement. If not, you really should be aware of it.
I think you're misreading what I said. You are lobbing personal attacks at all community moderators because of this situation. I am a community moderator, and feel personally offended that my character as a mod is being attacked because you disagree with the actions of a very small group of other mods.
Like I asked... are you aware of why I am not a mod? I don't want to have to say why in public. If you knew why, you'd know why I am concerned about the comm mods as a group, rather than individuals.
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@Cyali said in Moderators Denying Ability to Explain:
... and feel personally offended that my character as a mod is being attacked because you disagree with the actions of a very small group of other mods.
Sorry if there is any ambiguity. This specific incident was a group of comm mods and no other comm mods stepping in to help, ever. Why 72 stood by while three bullies, I don't know. The reason that I have a problem with the comm mods as a whole is older and certainly applies to anyone willing to have the title. I'm sorry if you take that personally, but the willingness to be a comm mod requires something that I take issue with that, like I said, I'll discuss offline if you are unaware of. If you are aware of why, then you should not be surprised that I have issue with the mods.
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@Cyali said in Moderators Denying Ability to Explain:
And I find it hypocritical because the entire thing you're speaking out against is feeling personally targetted and attacked by a moderator.
No, a group of moderators who are representatives of the whole. You are a group and they spoke on your behalf. Did you speak on mine? Did anyone step in and stop them before Sean did? If not, why did no one else take action?
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@Cyali said in Moderators Denying Ability to Explain:
Or, if you did still feel the need to create a post about it, it could have been done professionally without spewing personal attacks at an entire group when 99% of them had nothing to do with the situation.
This is where I take issue... the core issue that I have with the comm mods applies to everyone. That there was a bullying group today doing something further and that no one else stepped in to assist the innocent.... sorry, but that reflects on the whole as well. You act and represent as a corpus. As community members, we are not even told always who has done what. What you accept the role of moderator you accept being part of the actions of the whole. You are not acting as an individual in all cases. If you feel that the actions of your associates make you feel ashamed, you should question why you choose the association rather than being upset with someone that was attacked by your associates. You are tied to them. I'm not saying that that is in any way the same as you taking the action yourself. But you still have a tied responsibility as your association is purely voluntary and is to act as a group.
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@scottalanmiller said in Moderators Denying Ability to Explain:
@Cyali said in Moderators Denying Ability to Explain:
@scottalanmiller said in Moderators Denying Ability to Explain:
@Cyali said in Moderators Denying Ability to Explain:
yet you lob tons of personal attacks at all of the other moderators because of it. It's completely hypocritical, and personally I am offended by being called out for being part of a group when I had zero to do with the situation.
Are you aware of the reason that I am not a community moderator? If so, I don't think that you would make this statement. If not, you really should be aware of it.
I think you're misreading what I said. You are lobbing personal attacks at all community moderators because of this situation. I am a community moderator, and feel personally offended that my character as a mod is being attacked because you disagree with the actions of a very small group of other mods.
Like I asked... are you aware of why I am not a mod? I don't want to have to say why in public. If you knew why, you'd know why I am concerned about the comm mods as a group, rather than individuals.
That's beside the point though. Simply because you are not a mod does not excuse you attacking ALL mods when you are having an issue with the actions of 3 of them. You are personally attacking ALL moderators as a group and that is not OK.
As far as the escalation, I understand Sean was out of the office...but this isn't a life-or-death situation that couldn't wait a half hour for a CM to take a look at the situation and step in.
And additionally, blaming the additional 72 mods for not stopping the actions of 3 isn't really fair. Yes, many of us are looking at the situation now...but as it happened very few were immediately aware of it. It's a very large site, and there is a lot to look through. Beyond that, most of us are at work and have work duties to take care of as well.
My whole point is that we, as a group, were not trying to target you. If you felt unfairly treated by a (or even 3) mod(s), then that is definitely something that should be escalated. And Sean is involved now which is great, as he will be able to make an impartial decision.
As I mentioned before, I will not comment on the specific situation (as personally I haven't had time to read everything to make an informed comment). But if you felt unfairly treated, again the appropriate response would be to simply escalate to a CM.
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@Cyali said in Moderators Denying Ability to Explain:
Like I asked... are you aware of why I am not a mod? I don't want to have to say why in public. If you knew why, you'd know why I am concerned about the comm mods as a group, rather than individuals.
That's beside the point though.
It certainly is not.
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@Cyali said in Moderators Denying Ability to Explain:
And additionally, blaming the additional 72 mods for not stopping the actions of 3 isn't really fair. Yes, many of us are looking at the situation now...but as it happened very few were immediately aware of it. It's a very large site, and there is a lot to look through. Beyond that, most of us are at work and have work duties to take care of as well.
That might be okay if we were talking about two or three people. But three mods (now it feels like five) going after me and no one in the giant pool of people doing something about it? That's a LOT of people to all have "other things to do" while every available mod is perfectly available to bully people.
Remember, as a mod you voluntarily take on responsibility as a group. These mods are your representatives of the group you choose to be in. I'm sorry if they reflect poorly on you, but you always have the right to disassociate with them.
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@scottalanmiller said in Moderators Denying Ability to Explain:
@Cyali said in Moderators Denying Ability to Explain:
Or, if you did still feel the need to create a post about it, it could have been done professionally without spewing personal attacks at an entire group when 99% of them had nothing to do with the situation.
This is where I take issue... the core issue that I have with the comm mods applies to everyone. That there was a bullying group today doing something further and that no one else stepped in to assist the innocent.... sorry, but that reflects on the whole as well. You act and represent as a corpus. As community members, we are not even told always who has done what. What you accept the role of moderator you accept being part of the actions of the whole. You are not acting as an individual in all cases. If you feel that the actions of your associates make you feel ashamed, you should question why you choose the association rather than being upset with someone that was attacked by your associates. You are tied to them. I'm not saying that that is in any way the same as you taking the action yourself. But you still have a tied responsibility as your association is purely voluntary and is to act as a group.
Yes, we represent a group, but that does NOT justify the personal attacks you've put out. You don't respond to a personal attack (perceived or otherwise) from one person by attacking multiple others. It's childish and unprofessional.
The proper way to handle this would have been to simply get a CM involved, then step away from the situation (as you've mentioned that it upset you).
