SMB resources on the move
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@BBigford said in SMB resources on the move:
"I have a business of 10-15 people. What does their network look like as far as on-premises and/or cloud equipment,services,etc?"
Today, a well designed system for the "average use cases" at this scale, assuming a lot of things including good WAN connectivity and no special case applications that break everything...
- No central logins and/or Azure AD if it is already paid for.
- Office 365 or Google Apps or similar for most services.
- SaaS applications across the board
And that's it. No servers at all, no storage at all except what is part of the existing productivity packages and all apps are off premises. No servers, no colocation, no IaaS, no systems to maintain.
Tons of exceptions to this, but this is the majority use case when done well. It's the median average of new, proper solutions. Old companies with cruft not withstanding.
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@BBigford said in SMB resources on the move:
@scottalanmiller said in SMB resources on the move:
@BBigford said in SMB resources on the move:
"I have a business of 10-15 people. They haven't added any new people in 5 years so scaling is slow."
But if the growth stops or turns around, you don't want to have invested in something that is expensive to purchase and maintain and might lock them down when it is not needed.
Good point. I've saw too many admins buy something "that would be good for company growth over the next 5 years". I really don't agree with that mentality because it's not realistic to plan for something that far in the future. Like a company buying a $20k SAN for 50 users because they expect to have 1500 users over the next 3 years.
And one of the dirty secrets of business is that there is no such thing as a prediction... there is just "lying through your teeth to scam investors". Companies can barely predict two weeks out, not a year. Never five years. If they could, they'd be worth anything with that knowledge. Even if the CEO tells you they will grow, don't believe him, that's crazy. He's just guessing and/or bluffing. And even if you did know exactly how the business would grow, you don't know how technology will change. So even perfect five year planning from your business doesn't give you enough info to know how to approach IT today for five years out.
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@DustinB3403 said in SMB resources on the move:
@BBigford said in SMB resources on the move:
I was driving home from work last night, thinking about how to better serve the SMB market. More on the side of micro businesses under 20 people. A few questions I was processing and expanding on:
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Do they really need servers? You could buy a simple NAS, or use a cloud storage provider like OneDrive for Business, Dropbox for Business, etc.
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Do they need a domain? If so, they could use something like Azure for AD.
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Do they need central email? If they don't need central email like Exchange, but want their email to appear like a business email, with their domain. Whoever is hosting their domain, usually provides email services at an extra cost.
What are your thoughts on some of those displacements? Thinking about this from, say, an MSP perspective. Not in-house IT. I'm thinking of how to better serve those micro businesses so as not to remain in the stagnant mindset of "you will have on-premises servers for file serves, AD, and Exchange."
I would use Zentyal for all of the above, you can purchase a server for really cheap. A 20 person office is right there on the cusp of "needing" AD.
You get everything baked into one open source package that a business would need, for free (unless you wanted the supported version).
And a server for Micro-Businesses like this would be super cheap.
I haven't used Zentyal before (though I think eBox was easier to pronounce... lol. Still not sure how to pronounce Zentyal... zent-yall?) but that looks really cool. Is it a replacement for Microsoft Small Business Server then? I haven't used SBS since 2011 and thought it was being deprecated at the time. Or did Microsoft replace SBS with Server Essentials? :S
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Zentyall can do a lot of things, AD included.... For an SMB that expressed a firm desire for centralized authentication, I'd go with some form of Linux based AD, such as Zentyal or a DIY solution like Samba 4...
However, if they're already paying for O365 and they get the AzureAD with it... why not use it instead?
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@scottalanmiller said in SMB resources on the move:
't a business class company. You can't use GoDaddy services for any business function except registration services, which don'
Rackspace is the same way for O365.
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@DustinB3403 said in SMB resources on the move:
@BBigford said in SMB resources on the move:
I was driving home from work last night, thinking about how to better serve the SMB market. More on the side of micro businesses under 20 people. A few questions I was processing and expanding on:
-
Do they really need servers? You could buy a simple NAS, or use a cloud storage provider like OneDrive for Business, Dropbox for Business, etc.
-
Do they need a domain? If so, they could use something like Azure for AD.
-
Do they need central email? If they don't need central email like Exchange, but want their email to appear like a business email, with their domain. Whoever is hosting their domain, usually provides email services at an extra cost.
What are your thoughts on some of those displacements? Thinking about this from, say, an MSP perspective. Not in-house IT. I'm thinking of how to better serve those micro businesses so as not to remain in the stagnant mindset of "you will have on-premises servers for file serves, AD, and Exchange."
I would use Zentyal for all of the above, you can purchase a server for really cheap. A 20 person office is right there on the cusp of "needing" AD.
You get everything baked into one open source package that a business would need, for free (unless you wanted the supported version).
And a server for Micro-Businesses like this would be super cheap.
Huh - I'd almost never go this way. Unless there is some legal or technical reason that they need onsite stuff (like they have horrible internet options) Why have onsite anything?
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@Dashrender said in SMB resources on the move:
@DustinB3403 said in SMB resources on the move:
@BBigford said in SMB resources on the move:
I was driving home from work last night, thinking about how to better serve the SMB market. More on the side of micro businesses under 20 people. A few questions I was processing and expanding on:
-
Do they really need servers? You could buy a simple NAS, or use a cloud storage provider like OneDrive for Business, Dropbox for Business, etc.
-
Do they need a domain? If so, they could use something like Azure for AD.
-
Do they need central email? If they don't need central email like Exchange, but want their email to appear like a business email, with their domain. Whoever is hosting their domain, usually provides email services at an extra cost.
What are your thoughts on some of those displacements? Thinking about this from, say, an MSP perspective. Not in-house IT. I'm thinking of how to better serve those micro businesses so as not to remain in the stagnant mindset of "you will have on-premises servers for file serves, AD, and Exchange."
I would use Zentyal for all of the above, you can purchase a server for really cheap. A 20 person office is right there on the cusp of "needing" AD.
You get everything baked into one open source package that a business would need, for free (unless you wanted the supported version).
And a server for Micro-Businesses like this would be super cheap.
Huh - I'd almost never go this way. Unless there is some legal or technical reason that they need onsite stuff (like they have horrible internet options) Why have onsite anything?
Are you using Azure AD then?
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@Dashrender said in SMB resources on the move:
I'll admit that I find it pretty hard to get away from the idea of centralized logon, no matter how small the company it. I
This is definitely a me thing. Scott's right that most can probably get away from it and use the authentication mechanisms of whatever services they use to secure that data.
I suppose you can use MDM at the PC level if you want to ensure things like software deployments, AV, updates, etc to manage that, instead of a domain (and I'm referring to the built in features that come along with Windows AD, not AD itself - for example GPOs).
@scottalanmiller would you have local logons? or skip even those? How do you handle situations where users don't do as they are told and save things to the cloud.. and install save to the desktop and they are sick and now you need access? Am I worried over nothing?
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@BBigford said in SMB resources on the move:
@Dashrender said in SMB resources on the move:
@DustinB3403 said in SMB resources on the move:
@BBigford said in SMB resources on the move:
I was driving home from work last night, thinking about how to better serve the SMB market. More on the side of micro businesses under 20 people. A few questions I was processing and expanding on:
-
Do they really need servers? You could buy a simple NAS, or use a cloud storage provider like OneDrive for Business, Dropbox for Business, etc.
-
Do they need a domain? If so, they could use something like Azure for AD.
-
Do they need central email? If they don't need central email like Exchange, but want their email to appear like a business email, with their domain. Whoever is hosting their domain, usually provides email services at an extra cost.
What are your thoughts on some of those displacements? Thinking about this from, say, an MSP perspective. Not in-house IT. I'm thinking of how to better serve those micro businesses so as not to remain in the stagnant mindset of "you will have on-premises servers for file serves, AD, and Exchange."
I would use Zentyal for all of the above, you can purchase a server for really cheap. A 20 person office is right there on the cusp of "needing" AD.
You get everything baked into one open source package that a business would need, for free (unless you wanted the supported version).
And a server for Micro-Businesses like this would be super cheap.
Huh - I'd almost never go this way. Unless there is some legal or technical reason that they need onsite stuff (like they have horrible internet options) Why have onsite anything?
Are you using Azure AD then?
You have a choice - Like @scottalanmiller said, you can skip the centralized logon altogether. or use something like Azure AD. See my previous post
We over lapped
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@Dashrender said in SMB resources on the move:
@scottalanmiller would you have local logons? or skip even those? How do you handle situations where users don't do as they are told and save things to the cloud.. and install save to the desktop and they are sick and now you need access? Am I worried over nothing?
Management and policy issue. This isn't a problem for IT to solve.
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@coliver said in SMB resources on the move:
@Dashrender said in SMB resources on the move:
@scottalanmiller would you have local logons? or skip even those? How do you handle situations where users don't do as they are told and save things to the cloud.. and install save to the desktop and they are sick and now you need access? Am I worried over nothing?
Management and policy issue. This isn't a problem for IT to solve.
LOL touche.. but still, you're the owner - what do you pick and why?
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@Dashrender said in SMB resources on the move:
@coliver said in SMB resources on the move:
@Dashrender said in SMB resources on the move:
@scottalanmiller would you have local logons? or skip even those? How do you handle situations where users don't do as they are told and save things to the cloud.. and install save to the desktop and they are sick and now you need access? Am I worried over nothing?
Management and policy issue. This isn't a problem for IT to solve.
LOL touche.. but still, you're the owner - what do you pick and why?
If people aren't doing their job why do you have those people?
It depends on the company, if I were doing a green field with a decent internet connection I would do SaaS and hosted all the way.
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@coliver said in SMB resources on the move:
@Dashrender said in SMB resources on the move:
@coliver said in SMB resources on the move:
@Dashrender said in SMB resources on the move:
@scottalanmiller would you have local logons? or skip even those? How do you handle situations where users don't do as they are told and save things to the cloud.. and install save to the desktop and they are sick and now you need access? Am I worried over nothing?
Management and policy issue. This isn't a problem for IT to solve.
LOL touche.. but still, you're the owner - what do you pick and why?
If people aren't doing their job why do you have those people?
It depends on the company, if I were doing a green field with a decent internet connection I would do SaaS and hosted all the way.
Where did people not doing their job come from? oh you mean the not saving the files in the correct place - that's a joke right? Assuming you're supposed to save all of your files on a network share, are you telling me that NEVER save one to the desktop? I know I do. and then I get set and forgot to move it.... it's not often, but it does happen.
I'm not going to can someone over that. -
@Dashrender said in SMB resources on the move:
@coliver said in SMB resources on the move:
@Dashrender said in SMB resources on the move:
@coliver said in SMB resources on the move:
@Dashrender said in SMB resources on the move:
@scottalanmiller would you have local logons? or skip even those? How do you handle situations where users don't do as they are told and save things to the cloud.. and install save to the desktop and they are sick and now you need access? Am I worried over nothing?
Management and policy issue. This isn't a problem for IT to solve.
LOL touche.. but still, you're the owner - what do you pick and why?
If people aren't doing their job why do you have those people?
It depends on the company, if I were doing a green field with a decent internet connection I would do SaaS and hosted all the way.
Where did people not doing their job come from? oh you mean the not saving the files in the correct place - that's a joke right? Assuming you're supposed to save all of your files on a network share, are you telling me that NEVER save one to the desktop? I know I do. and then I get set and forgot to move it.... it's not often, but it does happen.
I'm not going to can someone over that.So we're back to this being a management and policy issue. If it's part of your job to save things in a specific location and you don't do that they you aren't doing your job. Am I being pedantic, yes of course I am, but I'm just trying to illustrate why this isn't an IT issue.
That being said most cloud platforms have an easy way to sync to the local desktop making this kind of moot... hell I have a script that mounts my ODfB account to a local drive over WebDAV. It can also do Sharepoint sites.
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@coliver said in SMB resources on the move:
@Dashrender said in SMB resources on the move:
@coliver said in SMB resources on the move:
@Dashrender said in SMB resources on the move:
@coliver said in SMB resources on the move:
@Dashrender said in SMB resources on the move:
@scottalanmiller would you have local logons? or skip even those? How do you handle situations where users don't do as they are told and save things to the cloud.. and install save to the desktop and they are sick and now you need access? Am I worried over nothing?
Management and policy issue. This isn't a problem for IT to solve.
LOL touche.. but still, you're the owner - what do you pick and why?
If people aren't doing their job why do you have those people?
It depends on the company, if I were doing a green field with a decent internet connection I would do SaaS and hosted all the way.
Where did people not doing their job come from? oh you mean the not saving the files in the correct place - that's a joke right? Assuming you're supposed to save all of your files on a network share, are you telling me that NEVER save one to the desktop? I know I do. and then I get set and forgot to move it.... it's not often, but it does happen.
I'm not going to can someone over that.So we're back to this being a management and policy issue. If it's part of your job to save things in a specific location and you don't do that they you aren't doing your job. Am I being pedantic, yes of course I am, but I'm just trying to illustrate why this isn't an IT issue.
That being said most cloud platforms have an easy way to sync to the local desktop making this kind of moot... hell I have a script that mounts my ODfB account to a local drive over WebDAV. It can also do Sharepoint sites.
LOL, well the issue isn't an IT problem, but tomorrow when bob calls in sick and the CEO wants that file, you bet your ass it's IT's problem.
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@coliver said in SMB resources on the move:
hell I have a script that mounts my ODfB account to a local drive over WebDAV. It can also do Sharepoint sites.
You need a script for that? Doesn't the ODfB app do that? or are you talking about a Linux install?
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@Dashrender said in SMB resources on the move:
@coliver said in SMB resources on the move:
hell I have a script that mounts my ODfB account to a local drive over WebDAV. It can also do Sharepoint sites.
You need a script for that? Doesn't the ODfB app do that? or are you talking about a Linux install?
ODfB tries to download all the files and sync documents between your local computer and the Sharepoint site. I don't want that I just want file access without the syncing. This script allows me to mount it with WebDAV.
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@Dashrender said in SMB resources on the move:
@coliver said in SMB resources on the move:
@Dashrender said in SMB resources on the move:
@coliver said in SMB resources on the move:
@Dashrender said in SMB resources on the move:
@coliver said in SMB resources on the move:
@Dashrender said in SMB resources on the move:
@scottalanmiller would you have local logons? or skip even those? How do you handle situations where users don't do as they are told and save things to the cloud.. and install save to the desktop and they are sick and now you need access? Am I worried over nothing?
Management and policy issue. This isn't a problem for IT to solve.
LOL touche.. but still, you're the owner - what do you pick and why?
If people aren't doing their job why do you have those people?
It depends on the company, if I were doing a green field with a decent internet connection I would do SaaS and hosted all the way.
Where did people not doing their job come from? oh you mean the not saving the files in the correct place - that's a joke right? Assuming you're supposed to save all of your files on a network share, are you telling me that NEVER save one to the desktop? I know I do. and then I get set and forgot to move it.... it's not often, but it does happen.
I'm not going to can someone over that.So we're back to this being a management and policy issue. If it's part of your job to save things in a specific location and you don't do that they you aren't doing your job. Am I being pedantic, yes of course I am, but I'm just trying to illustrate why this isn't an IT issue.
That being said most cloud platforms have an easy way to sync to the local desktop making this kind of moot... hell I have a script that mounts my ODfB account to a local drive over WebDAV. It can also do Sharepoint sites.
LOL, well the issue isn't an IT problem, but tomorrow when bob calls in sick and the CEO wants that file, you bet your ass it's IT's problem.
That's the whole point of contingency planning isn't it? What happens if Bob gets hit by a bus and all of his business critical documents are on his laptop that he was carrying? These documents aren't backed up. They only lived on his laptop and are now unrecoverable. What does the business do then? Is it an IT problem if the company didn't enforce policies related to document storage?
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@dafyre said in SMB resources on the move:
Zentyall can do a lot of things, AD included.... For an SMB that expressed a firm desire for centralized authentication, I'd go with some form of Linux based AD, such as Zentyal or a DIY solution like Samba 4...
Zentyal is just Samba4. All of these non-Windows solutions are Samba4.
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@coliver said in SMB resources on the move:
@BBigford said in SMB resources on the move:
- Do they need central email? If they don't need central email like Exchange, but want their email to appear like a business email, with their domain. Whoever is hosting their domain, usually provides email services at an extra cost.
Zoho provides free email with a custom domain for up to 10 users. Anything more then that and Exchange Online is the way to go.
Plus if you refer other people you can get up to 15 more accounts for free.
It's cheaper per paid account than both O365 and Google Apps. But they have a ton more add ons than both the others.
